MEN|TAL MEN|TALITY with Branden and Patrick
Podcast focusing on men's mental health, entpreneurism and Dad life
MEN|TAL MEN|TALITY with Branden and Patrick
Episode 2
Pending
What's up, brother?
SPEAKER_04:Hey man, how are you?
SPEAKER_01:Good, dude. How was the week?
SPEAKER_04:You know, it was uh it was a tough week overall, which is fine. You have those, but I had it such a great weekend. First of all, I got to see Manny Pacquiao fight, and honestly, he got robbed. I think he should have won. But and then yesterday, uh we celebrated my son's baptism.
SPEAKER_01:Hell yeah, I saw that on Facebook, dude. That's awesome. Yeah, do you saw the fight in person or just on no no no just on TV.
SPEAKER_04:But I have been to a Pacquiao fight. I would have loved to be able to go and see it, but I'm sure tickets were like for nosebleeds like 800 bucks.
SPEAKER_01:Oh yeah, bro. I saw it on uh Prime Video, it was like 79 bucks or something. I was gonna get it, but I decided to watch that the new karate kid movie. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:We already talked about that a little bit offline. So too funny.
SPEAKER_01:Well, right on, dude. Well, last time, man, I kind of ran through my story, and I think we talked about raising kids in a little bit today, but I kind of wanted to see if you wanted to jump in with your story and what you went through and and how you got out of it or how as much as you want to, dude, and go from there. Okay.
SPEAKER_04:You know, it's always um I always try to figure a good starting point, right? And I heard this on uh from a guest on a on a like podcast I used to run, and he said, I didn't know that rock bottom had an ocean floor. And for me, like I I kind of see things visibly, right? And so to hear that I resonate with that so much because just to get back to normal C, just to get back to what most people struggle with, like, and again, it's not a comparison game, but for me, to be able to get to that was such a blessing, and so you know, I tell people all the time that I went from unpurposed to unfinished, and so I remember this was after my second attempt uh at suicide, and it's such a low feeling when you don't complete the one thing that you thought was going to fix everything, sure, and so I remember sitting there like beyond low. I was like, man, I couldn't even do this right. And I remember I think I had taken like 30 or 40 Advil or Tylenol or something like that, and I woke up three days later in the hospital. Um, and so I remember waking up. Uh, I do remember parts where they're like pumping my stomach, you know, throwing up, but it was just fragments. And I remember laying there just feeling so low, and the doctors would come in, the nurses would come in, you know, they're like, you gotta get up, you gotta go pee, and all this stuff, and I just didn't want to do anything. And I remember I think it was the fourth day. Um, by the way, like when you go through that stuff, they restrain you because they don't want you to go, and and they're trying to check you into you know uh psych and rehab and all that stuff. But I remember sitting there and I was like, why? Why couldn't I finish this? And it was kind of like in that moment that I remember that I heard like God's voice where he just said, I'm not done with you yet. And while most people use that as kind of like a refresher, right? And it was kind of like this whole spirit pouring over you, like, oh, you know, this overcoming sensation. For a brief moment, I got really mad because I was like, everything else I've gone through has not been great. What else is in store? Right. And of course, like I said that, and there was like almost like some immediate regret, and I started thinking of like all the stories, you know, of the Bible that I grew up with, you know. But specifically, it was like Saul turned Paul, and you know, that moment when he's persecuting, killing all these Christians, and then he turns around, he's blinded for three days, and then all of a sudden he's like, you know, he's a changed person. And so I wouldn't say like overnight that I was changed, but you know, I remember specifically being like really angry, thinking like, what else do you have in store for me? Almost kind of like it can't get worse, like, or maybe it can, and you're gonna make it worse for me. So it was almost like blaming, you know, God in that moment. But you know, after kind of going through, you know, the psychaval and all this stuff, you know, I just I just basically played dumb. Like, oh, I don't remember what happened. I just knew that I took some Tylenol, I was really tired, I was really, you know, whatever. And they're like, you had so much in there, like, how did this happen? I just kept playing dumb, right? And not answering all the questions. And how old were you? Um 20 at this point, 23 years old. Okay. Yeah. And so I was going through all this, and I was just checking off the boxes, right? And I remember I got home, and you'd know this. We talked about this last time. Being alone with yourself is the worst, right? Your mind plays tricks on you, you run through the worst case scenarios. And again, this is the second attempt I had, right? The first time I tried to cut myself, and actually it hurt. So to go through a second time, I was like, well, maybe I'll just, you know, this will put me uh away in my sleep or whatever. And so, first of all, this is like one of the worst ways that you can go because it messes up your kidneys. And so like I'm always worried that you know that one incident may come back to haunt me one day.
SPEAKER_00:Sure.
SPEAKER_04:But as I I look back, I remember just sitting there alone late at night. I think it was like 2 30 in the morning or something like that. And I used to go take these walks. Um, and I remember I went for a walk, and it was kind of rainy, and out of nowhere, it's like this lightning strike hit. It was no thunder, but it was very, very visible for me for that lightning. And then I kind of turned around because I was like, Oh, I'm gonna head back to uh head back home. Another lightning struck that side, complete opposite sides, and I was like, oh man, it's like storms getting ready to come down really, really bad. No rain in every direction that I was walking, every turn, a lightning struck. And then by the time that I got into my house, then I started hearing all the thunder. So I went to the the deck uh of the house that I was renting at that point in time. As soon as I went out there, the the lightning struck again, and then I finally heard this loud thunder. And I basically just started crying my eyes out, man. And I was like, What do you want from me? Right? I was basically pleading. I was like, okay, you've got my attention. Like, what do you want? And he said, I told you I'm not done with you. And so, like, I'm crying, and you know, like how you catch yourself sometimes in the mirror, like that ugly cry, and you just realize how ugly you're capable of being. Like, first you're like, Man, I didn't think I could be even uglier than what I am right now. So I caught myself, right? Because I went to go wash my face, and then you know, you do one of those things, and I think Dane Cook brought it up like years ago. He's like, You're crying, and you're just kind of staring at yourself, and you can't stop crying, but you can't stop staring at yourself as one of those moments, right? But I remember like washing my face, trying not to like cry anymore, seeing like all of this just mess. And then he basically said, You're meant for more. And that like really hurt me because I realized then that maybe there was a purpose, right? And again, I'd been talking thinking about again, Saul turned Paul, right? How Noah um or I'm sorry, Moses rejected, you know, his calling, you know, all these things, and I started thinking about that, and he said, He said, I had to bring you through this hardship for you to realize that I've been calling you and you haven't been listening. And it killed me for a moment that one I would first question, right, in that moment when I was really angry. And then for me to basically literally walk in every single direction and for him to throw that lightning, you know, whatever, to basically say, like, I'm trying to get your attention, and then finally, just like that one, it like literally scared the shit out of me, but then it brought me to my knees, you know, and it was the craziest thing. And so ever since then, it doesn't happen like all the time, but there have been pivotal moments in my life when I need to make a decision, when um I'm really lost, and I would drive down Powers Corridor, and this lightning would chase me, basically saying I'm here, and it's the weirdest thing because it's only happened probably about four or five times in my entire life. And but every major decision that I've had, basically, when I'm driving down Powers Corridor, that lightning is hitting, and there's no rain to go with it. It's the craziest thing.
SPEAKER_01:Interesting.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:What uh what was going through your mind when you took those pills? Do you remember?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I mean, there's a couple of things, right? You it's weird because some people just do it, some people just go for it, they don't think about it. Um, because like you said, like we said, the worst thing is when you think too much. And so when you start thinking too much, I started pre-planning. I was like, I'm gonna write some letters. Uh, because in my mind, I'm like, well, it's gonna be a while, so whoever finds it, they're gonna reach out to my dad, they're gonna reach out to this, they're gonna go through my friends list, somebody's gonna find out, and then like I'll leave a little will so that way certain things go to certain people, so that way they can you know, but you're not thinking of like the hurt that you're gonna cause anybody, right? You're just thinking of what you're going through and how that's going to end, but you don't think about like the impact that it's going to have. So I think in that moment when I swallowed all those things, that the idea was like it would just it would just end. I wouldn't have to worry, I wouldn't wake up, and um, you know, like I just I guess hoped that it would be over.
SPEAKER_01:What did you think would happen afterwards?
SPEAKER_04:Like when I woke up?
SPEAKER_01:No, like if you were to if you were to successfully commit suicide, what what would what was gonna happen after?
SPEAKER_04:You know, I I thought that a couple people would mourn me, a couple people would basically be like, Man, this sucks, you know, this is you know, somebody that I care for. And I guess it's weird because like you hold on to this hope and idea that you've made impact on people.
SPEAKER_00:Sure.
SPEAKER_04:And it's weird because you're like, I'm literally the problem, but I hope that somebody, at least one person, would care. And so you start to think of even people that you haven't talked to in years, and you're like, Oh, that's funny. I remember this moment, you know, this memory that we create. I wonder if they ever think about that. And then you're like, Well, it's not enough.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Were you were you like spiritual yet? What did you have? I mean, obviously, because you had an encounter with God, but like spiritually, what what did you think the outcome was gonna be on the other side?
SPEAKER_04:I was scared shitless, man. Like the idea of and it and I don't know if I was so scared at that point, like, you know, because I grew up in the church and you know, in this belief, you know, of heaven and hell, but it also got to the point where I'm like, I'm already in hell.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So if I go and and I have to deal with eternal pain, like I already feel like I'm going through eternal pain. And obviously it's not the same, but at the same time, like this this hurt, this heart that can't be mended, you know, like what is wrong with me, the people that I'm around, everybody's gone, everybody's abandoning me. Um, am I made to be mediocre? Right? Like, how can if I'm made in your image, then why do I suffer like this? You know, like all these all these things came up. And so, you know, but it's weird because you're like, you don't know truly what's on the other side, you know, until and I guess that's where like the faith comes in for a lot of people, where some people just know. But I think for me, it was like it was so hard, even though this was the second attempt, right? That first attempt was basically like me cutting the the back of my leg, you know, and hoping that I'd bleed out. And um, it was just like all it did was just basically feed adrenaline. Sure. You know, and it was like your body goes into that fight or flight mode, you know, when that adrenaline kicks in, so it's like it makes it even harder. Um, but it gets painful, you know, the more places you try. So it's it's weird, you know, to think about that.
SPEAKER_01:So what what made you think that you weren't enough? Like, is it is it stemming from a dad that never said he loved you or from not growing up with the mom? Or I mean, how does how does all that come into play? Do you think? I mean, 23 years old, man, you're I say it's pretty young, but kids are committing suicide at 12, 13, 14, 15 years old now.
SPEAKER_04:So yeah, you know, I mean I think there's a lot of contributing factors. I think again, we've talked about this the way that we grew up, right? We grew up and your dad said throw some dirt on it, right? But did you die? Yeah, for sure. Right. And again, it's women went through the same thing, right? They were told to be a lady, don't show anger, you know, all this stuff. So it's like both sides already don't have balance because we were told to hide certain things, right? And you know, for the most part, like I never realized how much of an impact having two fan uh two parents meant, even if it was a broken household. But as long as you had two parents, you could still kind of get what you needed. But my mom left when I was nine, maybe eight and a half, and just haven't talked to her since? So she's around, but we've never had like a really close relationship, you know. And at nine years old, you don't know. So, like, my dad was raising three of us by himself. My brother at the time, I think he was 13, and my my brother told my dad he was like, Hey, I need you to step up and I need you to help with your brother and sister. And so I can't imagine what that looks like at 13 years old to be basically be thrust into a dad role because he was basically cooking, he was cleaning, he was the one making sure that we were doing chores because my dad's now working side jobs, he's taking classes to teach in the evenings, you know. But I think part of that was also his escape, right? Where he could just stay at work, plug into work, you know. But, you know, at nine, and my sister was eight years old or seven years old at the time, you know, we just basically all my dad hears is that we miss mom. We have no idea why she's gone, right? And there were signs. I mean, we we we heard them fight often, you know. I remember one time my mom like slammed this TV down and it cut my dad. You know, uh they would go on these trips to try my dad would take her on these trips to try and make it work or whatever. But I mean we heard all the fighting, but again, we had no idea. And but for me, I think the thing is that like I carry this blame. I remember one time my mom came in, she was out, and again, they weren't really like together, but she was still kind of living at the house, and she crawled into my bed at like four o'clock in the morning just to basically not have to go and and you know sneak in to let my father know that she was there. And I remember she was like her feet were like ice cold, and so I told my dad, I was like, Oh, I couldn't sleep. Mom came in at like four o'clock in the morning. Well, next thing I know, like the following week they divorced where they started that process. So I always assumed that it was my fault.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Right. But not once did I ever have either side tell me it's not your fault, right? And so I carried that for probably up through I was like 15 years old, thinking that it was all me. And that one incident was the thing that caused everything. So not having that mother figure, right? My and and again, kudos to a lot of the moms because they fulfill both roles. But it's hard for a father to fulfill both roles because a dad knows tough love, a dad knows to be a provider. Not all dads maybe have that soft side, unless maybe you're a girl dad.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:But I know that my sister had a lot of that affection, but I certainly didn't get it. And I can't imagine that my brother feels like he did either. But there's a respect, right? Because my dad turned around and raised three of us by himself, and this was in the 90s. You know, that's unheard of.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_04:So, you know, I th I I feel like that when I go back now, I realize that there was a lot of that, and you know, I remember being in third grade and basically just coming home before it got dark, right? Because I didn't have my dad to there to be like, hey, make sure you're home, right? It was just like, well, if I beat him home or if I'm home before dark, I'm good. And so, you know, I spent a lot of time isolated, I spent a lot of time sneaking out to go and do whatever I wanted. Um, and I didn't have like that discipline that maybe a father usually has, you know. Um, I call it the dad voice. Yeah, you know, sometimes you have to be like, what are you doing? Right. Um, like I only got that when I got in trouble at home. Yeah. You know what I mean? So it was like I learned how to do the sneaky stuff, right? I remember one time I stole my dad's credit card to sign up for America Online, and I forgot it was a 30-day trial. So I'd been using America Online for 30 days plus. And then finally, on like the 40th day, my dad was like, What the hell is this? Right? And he's like, This is this charge for 40 bucks. I didn't sign up for it, and I'm hearing him yell at these guys on the phone.
SPEAKER_01:I'm like, that was me. What's America Online?
SPEAKER_04:Oh man, America Online was the first internet, bro. I mean, I know I've I've I've never used it. Oh, so AOL. America Online, yeah, so we used to have the dial up and the phone like that.
SPEAKER_01:I didn't realize, I guess that makes sense.
SPEAKER_04:It was like a disc that you had to install. Um, but yeah, dude, I stole my dad's credit card to sign up for America Online. And um man, I got the whooping. I had a stick that had that I had to write my name on it because my dad would whoop me with that thing.
SPEAKER_01:Oh my god, too crazy.
SPEAKER_04:So like it was a whole different time frame, right? Yeah, for sure. And again, don't come after my father, he's a good dude. Like it was just a different time frame.
SPEAKER_01:It was a different time, man. I feel like you know, a lot of men don't have that feminine side to them, right? Even though we all do, it just a lot of us store it away. Yeah, you know, I grew up with just a single mom, so you know, I was always told it's okay to cry, it's okay to be in your feelings, it's okay, but everything in society always told me not to, right? So it's not like I grew up in a home where it was like, no, you can't. I grew up in a home was yeah, you can, but I also I feel like as a child we take in a lot more than what we get from the society than we do in our own home. Right. Um, you know, growing up without a mom, dude, I just I feel like is I don't know, dude. I feel like it's equivalent, or it's not equivalent. I think it's more destructive to grow up without a mom than it is without a father. But I don't know because you know, Mark, my stepdad came into my life when I was four, and you know, he's a big reason why I am the person that I am. So I still had a father figure, right? But I also resented my stepdad until I was 18 and then figured out like, oh, this guy's just trying to love me. Right. Right. Right. But I still felt like I had a safe haven with my mom.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And she always had my back, and you know, I was all always her little boy. So I always had that like feminine side to me, which that softer side of virtuality, right? But also feel like I I lost and won a lot in life because of that. Like I was always a little bit more softer in relationships than I should have been. I was always the too nice guy. I was always, you know what I mean? So I feel like I had the feminine side, but someone growing up without with a dad, without of like pull yourselves up by the bootstraps mentality, no feminine side. I mean, that is I feel like that's crucial to uh to a little boy, you know. And then the guilt and the shame that comes along with your mom leaving. I mean, I'm sure that just led into and and eventually uh over overran itself in your body or in your mind, and then it just led from one thing to another.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so you know what's really crazy is that like when all of this happened, my sister and I were basically like the the school knew, and I had no idea how they knew, but you know, obviously looking back, my father had conversations or whatever with the school, and so they provided like some counseling services. Sure. And it wasn't like all the time. I guess maybe they had somebody who would come in every once in a while, maybe it was just like a quarterly check-in or something like that. But I remember like every once in a while we'd have to go after school. Um, and nobody like imposed this on me, but I remember specifically trying to protect my sister, and when people would ask if we were okay, I just instinctively lied and would say, Yeah, we're fine.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Right. And my sister had I don't think she ever answered for herself.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Because my job, I guess, in my in my in my mind was that I need to protect her.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_04:And so if I admit that we don't that we're not okay, then it makes it real to us that we're, you know, that we're not okay. So if I say that we're fine.
SPEAKER_02:Sure.
SPEAKER_04:And so it's crazy that even at third in third grade at nine years old, that I pick that up.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Right. And so, you know, it's it's it's weird because statistically, I think I just read not too long ago that girls basically they need and they're really attached to their fathers up until about age nine. And ten and above, they really need mom's influence, right? And they need that's when they start to learn like a lot of things that mom does, whether it's cooking or cleaning or you know, managing household, they start to pick up on all those things. And vice versa for for boys, right? They're kind of mama's boys, um, you know, obviously for life, but I mean up to usually 10 years old. But then that's really when they need the father to start taking over and to start imparting, you know, things like working hard, um, you know, uh being a family man, you know, all those things. And so oftentimes what happens is that in a lot of marriages, the wife is kind of ahead of finances, the wife is kind of looked at as the matriarch of the family, and she's ultimately kind of the main decision maker. And a lot of times it's because the the husband doesn't make any of those decisions. And so, even like statistically, going to church, families that have the father that lead them going to church, the kids uh tend to go to church 80% of the time. They also have a higher graduation rate, they read better.
SPEAKER_00:Interesting.
SPEAKER_04:Versus when the mom leads them, a lot of times it's not a necessity, it's a lot of times the father dragging the feet. Sure. And so the kids only have like a 20 to 30 percent rate where they stay within the church.
SPEAKER_00:That's interesting. Yeah. I hated getting waken up to go to church by anybody.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and it's it's uh, and again, I mean, you know, a lot of people are gonna turn around and probably arguing the stats and all that stuff, and that's okay. Like, you know, uh there's a reason why this research gets done, but you know, it is important to basically have equals, right? That a mom and dad are equally important at different times, especially more so than the other. And that's okay, but that's also a hard pill for a lot of parents to swallow in today's world. And I know it's especially harder for those who are single parents that may be listening to this because you're forced to do it all. And again, kudos to you for having the ability to pick that up. But you know, our generation grew up at that point with the highest divorce rates. Yeah. Now obviously they're through the roof, but there's a reason why all those things matter. There's a reason why this mental health stuff has picked up so drastically. That's the reason why we're sitting here today having this conversation.
SPEAKER_01:For sure. So, what do you think? I mean, obviously you were depressed when you were 23, right?
SPEAKER_02:Dude, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So, what was like a typical day in Patrick's mind of being depressed and like suicidal ideology and like wondering when this is gonna end and how I was gonna get through it, or how you know, whatever. Like, what is run me through it, run me through a day?
SPEAKER_04:So, how it got there was basically I had a loss of identity. Okay, I had uh basically married the girl, uh, my high school sweetheart. Oh, you were married, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I did not know that.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, and then um basically, like I thought in my mind, I was like, I'm not gonna be a statistic, right? We're gonna do this and we're gonna be married. And um, well, you know, I went from thinking that we had only slept with each other to finding out that I had slept with half a restaurant.
unknown:Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_04:You know, and it was like years of piecing it all together. But at that time, I was like, I'm not gonna be a statistic, right? That was my whole thing. It was like my parents were divorced, your parents have been divorced, your mom's been divorced like three times. Like, you know, we're gonna be the ones to break through this. It starts with us. Nope.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Um, and you know, again, because I had not had that feminine love, right? I had not had that feminist touch, and you know, and I had several like mother figures that kind of um, you know, my friends, different moms basically were treated me like their own, you know, for the times that I was there, and I'm so thankful for that. But it's not the same, right?
SPEAKER_01:You didn't know what it looked like.
SPEAKER_04:No, I remember going to my friend's house, and um, my best friend Tim, his mom, even though he was in ninth grade, would tuck him in the bed. And his younger brother, who was like in eighth grade, she would go to his room, tuck him in, and their sister Kat, she was in sixth grade, and she would go tuck each one of them in. And I remember her for the first time like ever in my life that she would actually tuck the blanket under me and tuck me in, she's like, Good night, son. And I like I'd never experienced that. Yeah, sure, you know, and so to have some of those experiences meant the world to me. But when my ex and I started having all of this, I had put everything into this. I mean, I thought I tried to break up with her when I graduated high school because she was a year or two behind me. And you know, I basically said I was gonna leave for college, and then I ended up staying because I thought, where else am I gonna find somebody that understands all of my faults? Right. And so I stayed for the wrong reasons.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_04:Right. And it was should have been a red flag then. And there was a time when I like caught her talking to somebody that was in her grade level, like when I was like working, and so it was just kind of like a repeat process, and that you know, and I'm not gonna say it's all her, right? There's a lot of things I was trying to figure out going through all this stuff too. But there was a point when I was going to school, working full time, right, 40 hours a week, uh working the late shift. I'd go from 1 p.m. to midnight four days a week, going to school three days a week, and then working part-time uh as a uh as a youth minister to help out you know these kids at church.
SPEAKER_00:It's grinded, dude.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. And the idea was like, you don't have to work unless you absolutely want to. Well, she wanted to, which was fine, but I was like, okay, I'm I'm trying to get through all this. And I remember I came home early, got approved to go home early, and uh surprised her. I was like, oh, let's go to dinner. And she's like, Okay, I forgot something in the house, I'll be right back, and her phone rings. I was like, Oh, that's weird. So I pick it up, no answer. And I said, Hey, your phone rang. I was like, Do you know who that is? And her look on her face was like, mm-mm. And I was like, Oh, okay. I was like, Well, why don't you call it back? You know, I I didn't know anything of it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And she was like, Oh, she goes, I'll worry about it later. Go to dinner, come back home. She was like, I gotta be honest with you. And I said, What? She said, Yeah, that number is my boss. I said, Why the hell is he calling you at seven o'clock at night? And she was like, I don't want you to freak out. I need you to promise me. I said, I can't promise anything. I was like, This is crazy. And she's like, Yeah, she goes, We've been seeing each other. And I just felt sick. Yeah, you know, but like like I when I say felt sick, man, like I felt like that my entire spirit came out of my body, like for sure, you know, just all through my stomach, and I was like, I didn't know what to do. But that if eventually led to kind of going down this road of depression, again, loss of identity, because everything that I knew, uh like everything I did, I thought was for us, you know, working multiple jobs, you know, going to school to further my career, you know, um, all of these things, and you know, for what? And so after that, like I literally tried everything I could to try and avoid being alone. So I feel so bad for so many people that are like on my Facebook uh friends list because like if they were on, I'd message them and they had to hear like the worst stories, they'd have to hear me talking crap about her, talking crap about probably like just things in general. Um, such a negative person, like, even just some of the old poetry that I was writing. I wrote one that basically said, you know, like um. You know, angels dying, and and like, you know, I'll have to pull it up one of these days. But it was like such a dark moment, and it's like everybody I talked to, I'm sure I was toxic.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And nobody probably wanted to hang out with me, but for some reason, some people did. And I had a couple of friends. I had one guy at work where I couldn't afford to eat. You know, once we started kind of like separation and all that stuff, I was stuck in this house that I couldn't afford by myself. So I was paying rent in two checks. I was bouncing lights to keep the light on. I learned that if you had a dollar in your uh checking account, you could get a full tank of gas because it just registers you know that first initial dollar. Um I don't know how I got through it, right? But um just some of the craziest stuff. And I had a uh a guy who would just basically, you know, we'd be hanging out and he would just push over a meal, you know, he'd buy extra meal and just slide it over, or he'd turn around and he's like, Oh man, I got an extra one. They gave me one, right? And and you know, he was the only person that could kind of see the signs, but he never made a big deal about it. And then later I had some friends when I was out on leave at work, they would just drop stuff off at the desk at the porch. Hey man, we we didn't know if you eat eat had eaten, nobody's heard from you in a week or two, but here's something, you know. And it's like those things it's so easy to take for granted. And you look back now and I'm like, man, those people saved my life. But I had no identity, I had no idea who I was, and so therefore, what am I made for? What purpose do I serve? Because if everything that I placed in my entire world was in this and that didn't work, then what else can what else am I good for?
SPEAKER_01:Sure. Well, I feel like you associated I feel like you associated love from a female of just someone that was just gonna leave, you know, or someone that was going to disappoint you, or you know. I mean, am I wrong? Am I right?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I mean, well, you think about it, like I never had any of that affection, right? So for me, that was the ultimate prize. That was the thing, the one thing that was missing, quote unquote.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And so when I finally got it, I fell really hard and I thought, you know what? God, if I don't leave, or if I do leave, then maybe I'm letting go of the one person that truly gets me. And so again, it stayed for all the wrong reasons, right? And if I I look back on it, I'm like, that's really crazy that you could put all of your happiness into somebody else. And it's a common mistake that a lot of young people do and who are in love, right? But also at the same time, like I'm so thankful for the path of where it went because my wife now, my family, like my son, like man, it's mind-blowing like to think that I had to go through that to get to this. But if I knew that I had to go through all that, like all that heartache, all that heartbreak all over again, in a second, I would do it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_04:But that's only comes with overtime. Yeah, you know, for sure. For sure.
SPEAKER_01:Well, we talked about that last week, man, with my story too. I felt like I wouldn't I wouldn't take back the worst thing that ever happened to me because it made me who I who I am. A thousand percent. It made me a lot more empathetic, it made more more a lot more loving, it made me a lot more understanding of why people are going through what they're going through and why they treat me the way that they do, you know, and a lot of times, dude, it has nothing to do with you, even as a nine-year-old boy, bro. Like your mom leaving probably had very little or nothing to do with you at all.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:You know, but when we're growing up, dude, that's all it's fed to us, you know, through through um intrusive thinking or negative thinking or um, you know, what is talked about around the house or whatever the case is, you know, I feel like that is something that gets instilled in us that it's our fault. Right.
SPEAKER_04:Well, and I think that you're just searching for answers. Yeah, right. And so when when something doesn't make sense or when you can't do that, I think your body has one of two options to either cognitively file it away so you don't think about it, or you try to legitimize and find something that makes sense. Sure. And so I think for me, the only explanation that I could come up with of leaving was because my mom snuck into the house and and came and slept with me at four o'clock in the morning. Because, you know, that to me that was the only logical thing that made sense. That's like what caused the divorce was because my dad was so upset that he decided to finally file papers. You know, it's not the fact that you know my mom was out gambling uh late at night, the fact that she wasn't there physically as a mother for us, that she would, you know, intentionally like do all these things like you know, what nine-year-old can understand all those things?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, man. I think it's it's hard for a kid because you know I think you're right, dude. We're just searching for things to make sense, and when they don't, we just go into the absolute worst case scenario, and that usually comes back on us one way or another. Right. You know? Yeah. So crazy, dude. So when did you think when was the moment where you were like your aha moment of like, oh this is why I went through what I went through, or did it happen right away? Did it happen all at once? Did it happen over time?
SPEAKER_04:You know, I think a lot of it is that uh time really does heal. Yeah, sure. And I know it sounds cliche, but like hindsight's always 2020, right? But you know, a lot of it is also just kind of facing things head on, right? We oftentimes we deflect. And so um love the book that says the body keeps score, right? And so one way or another the pain will basically try to reveal itself, but the problem is that we subside it, we basically we take some medicine and hope it goes away. Well then it all eventually overflows, yes, yeah, yes, and so I think that one of the few things that was super instrumental is I had a friend named Matt, and Matt was uh a filmmaker. Now, when I first met Matt, Matt was uh overweight, right? And we both had basically were kind of in the the arcade scene for fighting games, you know, competitive, and so it's how I got connected with him. But Matt was always a little bit different, and it's because he was an artist, and it had been several years since I had seen him, and he had kind of seen some of my Facebook posts, and I think maybe he recognized some of the patterns or some of the things that I was stating. And I remember he's like, hey, let's grab a coffee or something like that. And this is kind of funny because I I think I was probably 21 at the time, and I remember like distinctly that I don't think I'd ever gone out to actually have a cup of coffee with somebody. Yeah, I'd been through to Starbucks, you know, or whatever, but I don't think I like actually went and sat down to have a cup of coffee with somebody. I just I wasn't drinking it. And I remember Matt sitting down with me and he just said, Look, I know you're probably hurting like hell. And I said, Oh, is that obvious? Because I hadn't seen this guy in years, right? And he said, Look, he's like, just embrace it. And that was the weirdest thing to me. I said, What do you mean, embrace it? He said, The best part about being human is being human. And it was such a foreign concept to me, but I went home that night and I just could not stop thinking about that. And I remember like I messaged him and I was like, What does that mean for for you? And he said, I was in a dark space. He's like, I was hu grossly overweight. He's like, I couldn't even walk down the street without you know having an asthma attack. And he's like, and and my whole identity, my entire life was being fat. He's like, but it's the little things, right? He's like, every time I go down the street and I start wheezing, I think of all the people that basically make fun of me. I think of all the things that I couldn't do. He's like, and then I would just one step further, one foot in front of the other every single time. And by the way, when I met uh reconnected with Matt, he was not fat at all. No, uh super fit, right? And um and he was like, Why don't you come out and jump on a film set? He's like, I can't pay you. He's like, I can buy you lunch. He's like, just come on the film set and be and learn all these things. And you know, I remember he shared his poetry with me, a manuscript, something that he didn't really care for, but he saw that I was writing. And I'll never forget, he was like, I uh I started writing, and he's like, I see you're writing some poetry, and I sent some stuff to him, and you know, I don't think he even read it now that I look back on it, but he was like, Man, he's like, just keep writing. And it was basically the idea that just keep going, no matter what, just keep going. If it doesn't matter if it sucks, doesn't matter if it's good. I like I said, I I swear I don't think he even read it, but he just said, keep going. And for that was basically what inspired me to keep writing, and I would just send him stuff, and I'm sure he didn't read any of it, but he was like, Man, yeah, like just keep writing. Like I'll just be in a light in your life, yeah, yeah. But all he said was keep writing. He never once said it was good, it was horrible. He just said keep writing. Yeah, and the idea was just keep going, yeah, no matter what. It doesn't matter if it's good, it doesn't matter if it's bad, just keep going. Yeah, and I look back on that today and I'm like, damn, what kind of Zen master are you to just sit there and be like, just keep going, like not giving any praise, not giving any criticism, but to encourage somebody to just know that if you keep going, you'll figure it out.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well, it's he gave you it's like subconsciously he gave you a sense of purpose without actually saying hundred percent because that's what you were looking for, right? Was a purpose. Why are you here? Why are you still living, even though you tried to commit suicide multiple times, you know?
SPEAKER_04:And to just not to just say keep going, you know, because a lot of people will blow smoke up your ass.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_04:And a lot of people turn around and maybe be there for just a moment. That's okay, right? You know, some people are seasonal, some people come in and out of your lives as you need them to. But to be able to take that and you know, I spent years in the slam poetry scene. I spent years um, you know, trying to learn about poetry. I had a a mentor when I first was live streaming on Twitch, and this guy's a five-time world haiku master champion. And like, have you ever seen a haiku battle? No. Okay. So, you know, haiku is limited to traditionally five, seven, five syllables, right? So the first line, five syllables, second. So think of like a rap battle, but limited to those types of syllables, and you have to come up on the fly or have a punchline to deliver in those haikus, and this guy could do it on the fly just like that.
SPEAKER_00:Wow.
SPEAKER_04:And so it's almost like I'm trying to, you know, a lot of people are like, What? I've never heard of this, but go watch some of these haiku battles. It's really crazy because they have to think on the fly and they have they're limited on how many sentences or how many syllables they get. And uh, this is the guy that taught me how to live stream. This is the guy that took my poetry to a whole nother level. Because he was like, What you write is so raw. He's like, but he's like, what happens when I listen to your poetry is you get to this point where I'm like so ready to go. He's like, and then you cut it off. First poem I ever heard from this guy was like a seven-minute long poem. And I was like, What? I've never heard of anything that long before. And he was like, Yeah, he's like, I'm gonna teach you how to get poetry stamina, I'm gonna teach you how to go to that next level, that deeper level. And he did. And um writing just to keep going to save my life.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, hell yeah, dude. You said something, um I just lost my train of thought here. I don't remember. That's alright. But um so when you met Sharon, bro, so you were 23 when all this happened, right?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, uh probably tail end of 22, almost 23. So when you met and then you met Sharon when? So Sharon actually grew up going to the same church as kids. Okay. And so uh she actually came over when she was about four years old. So I tell everybody she's my import wife. Um, but yeah, she came over, her parents came over on a visa, and we actually went to the same church growing up.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:And um, you know, as kids, you don't know um what you're doing, or you don't know like if you like somebody, but she'd be swinging and I'd take her shoe and I'd chuck it across the yard, you know, things like that. So hell yeah. Yeah, but you know, as a kid, you don't know that. Yeah, for sure. You know, and and to her, I'm just being an ass. Um, but yeah, I was like shortly after that stuff, I was in the poetry scene. I'd been single for a couple of years and I swore off never get married again, you know. And um just you know, for me it was like I'm going to work, I'm doing poetry, and then um I'm getting involved in some film stuff, right? So during that time I'd worked on a YouTube channel that got unofficially sponsored by Nerf. And uh what I mean by that is that they sent us everything, they sent us all their toys, like Nerf guns?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Oh, that's dope.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and um they did they basically said they they wanted us to be unofficial because they wanted real life reactions, so we weren't paid, but they would send us everything to review. And um that's cool. Yeah, some of the guys that I I met on set that I was uh working on, uh some of the stuff set with with uh Matt, um they turned around and invited me to some of their projects, and so that's how I started getting connected. Uh during that time, I also did some acting for Spike TV. So I actually have IMDB credits for a YouTube channel and Spike TV and stuff like that. Yeah. But like I said, I went and tried everything. But you know, um, I think it was Facebook, Sharon's sister had found me. And um again, during this time, I'm like still late at night, still up for days at a time sometimes. So if somebody's online at two o'clock in the morning, I'm shooting them a message, right? It was just kind of one of those things again, I hated being by myself at during that time. And Sharon's sister had connected me, I think, while I was at work, and so I was talking with her, and I totally forgot that she had a sister. And then when when we reconnected, I saw her Facebook profile picture and I was like, this is gonna be my wife. And it was the weirdest thing because we hadn't talked yet. Finally, she messaged me, responded, and uh, we started chatting. And then um, I her parents still live down here, so she was coming down, and I was like, Well, why don't you come to one of my poetry shows? And um, we just kind of took off from there. And ever since then, man, we've just kind of been you know, two peas in a pot.
SPEAKER_01:That's so funny, dude. I called out my wife before we even talked to her. Did you really? We were I was we worked at Bubba's together. She didn't know what I existed yet. And um I told my buddy Todd, who had worked, he still works there, but at the time, Bubba's. Um I was like, hey, you see that girl right there? And he's like, Yeah, what about her? And I said, one day she's gonna be my wife. And sure as shit, dude, here we are 10 years later, you know. But uh that's too funny. I remember what I was gonna say. I I uh you touched on something saying that your friend said to embrace just embrace it. I think that's something that a lot of like anxiety suffers and a lot of depression, like what it what like what's the automatic response in those things that's to fight it, right? Right, right. And the more we fight it, the worse it gets. And that was something that I got with my anxiety. I mean, I had depression at at times, but I think just because my hormones were so up and down that whatever was depleted, my serotonin or dopamine or whatever the case is. But the day I decided just to be like, I know what this is, I'm not having a heart attack, I don't have a crazy disease, I'm not depri I mean, I am I'm I'm depressed, but like why instead of like searching for reasonings, just it is what it is. Let's see if we can kind of just get over the hump, just one foot in front of the other, day by day, inch by inch. Right. You know what I mean? So I think that's something that's important for everyone to know is that stop trying to fight it so much because I think the more we dwell on it, the more we think about it, it's just feeding the fire. Yes, right? Yes. So I think that's a really good point that your friend Matt made was just embrace it, man. And I and now that's a lot easier said than done because the last thing we want to feel is anxious or depressed, or just out of our mental state in general, right? Right, 100%. Um, you know, I never like I touched on last episode, we I never really had I never had a desire to kill myself, but I understood why. Yeah. But you know, just being in pain for that long, man, whether it's being inside your own head or being isolated, or which I think I was isolated on purpose. Um, but you know, I just think if we embrace what's happening to us and just understand it is what it is, and there's there's a way to heal from this, right, instead of thinking like, oh man, I'm gonna be like this forever, right? How am I gonna get out of this? But that's a really hard mentality to have when you're in it. Yes.
SPEAKER_04:Well, and I think that I don't know why, but a lot of times we're sold that these ideas are and that these things that we go through are permanent.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Right. Well, at the time it feels that way. Right. No, absolutely. It feels like, you know, forever. But it's like every single parent teaches you these things as if it's a permanent situation, right? Um, like we we talk about the idea of marriage, being till death do you part, but how many people actually make that statistically?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, what is it, 50% of marriages end in divorce right now?
SPEAKER_04:I think it's a little bit more, yeah. Right. Um, you know, and and people think that they're married to maybe the business that they start and and treat it as if it is going to be a marriage or their child, right? And I get it, like it's your baby, but also at the same time, do you know how many people turn around and are part of the building phase and they move on to the next thing because they just love being a part of that building phase? And so so many of these things, this idea of you know that it's permanently standing, right? That all of these things are kind of like tattoos. But the idea really is that if we taught our kids to learn how to pivot, if we taught kids that, you know what, like you will recover from this, sometimes it just takes time, and uh to be able to embrace it. And then that's a a concept that is very foreign even now. Because I tell people a lot, you know, I call it the beautiful struggle. Yeah, and a lot of people when I say that, they're like their mind twists, right? Because they're like, what does that mean? And again, it's the same thing, you just have to embrace what you're going through. And it's like we talked about earlier um before the show started, right? Being in high frequency, life rewards you when you're going in the right direction. But the more resistance you have, maybe the more that you're gonna suffer until you figure it out.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, for sure. I think Aaron said it great, man. I think you know, he said, if it's if it's hard, it if it's too hard, it's probably what'd you say? Yeah, for sure. Doing the right thing is not supposed to be difficult, right? Right. And, you know, I think a lot of I mean you think about what you just said, dude. If we instill in our in our kids to pivot, they'll grow up more resilient, mindful kids as adults, right? But how many kids, or how many adults now that are like, oh man, I've had depression since I was six, or I've had anxiety since I was five, or whatever the, you know, whatever the mental struggle is, right? Well, someone told you that this was a lifelong commitment and that you had to take medication for it to be, and I'm not I'm not knocking medication, right? I just decided to do it without it because that was what I felt was beneficial for me. Sure. Right. But how many parents are telling their kids that this is a life sentence? More than more than not.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And then, you know, these kids are four, five, six, seven, eight, nine years old thinking that they're gonna have this mental crisis for the rest of their life and then they're committing suicide at 13 years old. Right. Not saying it's directly the parents' fault, but is there something that we can instill in our kids that allow them to think more resiliently, to think greater than how they feel? Right, right. Right? Because yeah, sure. With hormones, dude, and like the shit they're putting in our food and the stuff we're drinking and like whatever else is happening that's making or society or Facebook or social media or whatever the case is, there's something that is getting instilled in our children that is allowing them to feel the way that they feel, which is okay, but they don't have to know or they don't have to think that they're gonna feel like this forever. Right, right. And and the other thing is that like they have time, totally, dude. Right. But what does social media tell you?
SPEAKER_04:You don't have to yeah, you haven't you have to buy it now, right? And and so like that's something that I notice is like I'm an impulse shopper. So if like if I if there's something there, like, and I used to be really bad about like the candy aisle, man. Like, we'd be there at the register, and I'm like, oh, let me grab this, right? And so I noticed that my son is also an impulse buyer, and so he's like, Oh, dad, what about this joy ride? What about this kind of joy, whatever, like all this stuff? And I'm like, I have to stop because if I don't, he's going to think it's okay every time. And so it's interesting to see even like the little things that they pick up on, right? For sure, and then they turn around, they're like, Well, dad did it, well, mom did it, right? It's okay for you, but it's not okay for me. And then, you know, and I'm like, it's a blessing and a curse to have a smart child, man. Like for sure.
SPEAKER_01:It's a blessing and a curse, too, to have our children be raised better than when we were raised. Yes, you know what I mean. Double parent households, more money on the table than there's ever been, you know, more shit in the house than there's ever been, toys out the ass, you know, it just I I totally agree with you. But we have to be able to teach them how to pivot.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Well, and and I think that's also something that, and and again, this is um, I think this is coming from that that Dennis Rodman tweet that I sent you. Oh, yeah. Um it's a lifetime of trying. And, you know, so for those of you who don't know, Dennis Rodman's daughter is basically uh ghosting him. She's in the WNBA, I believe, and he's not allowed to go to her games uh because of his current uh significant other. But you know, there's all these stories about how he abandoned her and how he's not there, but he's making amends publicly, even. And he's trying, and he said that he'll spend the rest of his life trying, and you know, it's it's crazy because moms don't stay shunned for very long, not at least not too often, usually, but fathers can get shunned for a lifetime, and that's crazy for sure.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, dude, I just think that you know, going back to what I said, dude, it's just as adults me and you now, I mean, how I was 25 years old when my like it wasn't it wasn't out of my own willpower that I was like, okay, I'm gonna deal with all my childhood trauma right now and it's gonna end in an ego death and I'm gonna have struggles and I'm gonna for the next seven years you're gonna feel like your life's in the in the shitter because it was. Right. Obviously, I didn't decide that for myself, it just you know, going back to your book, The Body Keep Score, which I've never read, I've heard a lot about it, which I I'd love to read it, but there's a point in your life that you're gonna have to deal with it whether you want to or not. 100%. And um how many of us I'm kind of contradicting myself because I said that I wouldn't take back the worst thing that ever happened to me, but would I have been able to deal with it sooner if I was taught to pivot? If I was taught to understand, like, hey, this isn't something you're gonna go through forever. I know it may seem like it right now, but let's deal with it now so you don't have to deal with it when you're an adult. And that's something I'm trying to teach in my kids now, you know, my 12-year-old specifically, especially, is that like, dude, like it's okay, dude. Like it's it's gonna get better on the other side of things, but you gotta deal with it now. Yeah. You know, so I mean, was there a point where you were like, oh, this is all stemming from my childhood, or oh, this is all stemming from from from my early marriage, or you know, was there a point where you were like, oh, like this is what I have to deal with? Because if I don't deal with it, and I'm just gonna be stuck here forever.
SPEAKER_04:Let me give you a phrase that I learned, and uh this is it was so monumental when I heard it. What you don't forgive, you become. And I remember like I had so much anger like after the divorce and dealing with all this stuff, and you know, it was crazy because I like I thought being free of her would free me. And all it did was actually torment me for a little bit longer because I didn't know how to let it go. And so even uh after the fact, right, we were uh dealing with issues financially, and I remember I was dating Sharon um you know after the divorce and all this stuff, and I remember she heard me arguing and she just took my phone and hung up on her. And I said, What the hell did you just do? And she's like, Why would you let her talk to you like that? You were arguing with your ex-wife? Yes. And Sharon took my phone and hung up on her.
SPEAKER_01:That's crazy. That takes a str that that takes a strong woman to do that, bro.
SPEAKER_04:And I said, Why? And she said, She goes, You don't she goes, you're not married to her. She can't tell you what to do. She goes, You don't need to listen to that. And so she would call back and Sharon would block them uh block the call and she would she'd send it to voicemail. She goes, I don't care if she calls 30 times, I'll block her 30 times. When she learns to respect you, she can talk to you.
SPEAKER_01:For sure, dude. Well, some pe some people feed their own fuel by having control over other people. 100%, and I think that's a pro like the big problem in our society, actually. You know, it's just like as long as I have control over this certain person or these group of people, or that's why a lot of people fucking hate their bosses, dude. Because they're just assholes in control of everything, including you and your paycheck. But the same thing, dude. I mean, she felt like she was in control of you and she fed her own ego off of that. Correct, correct.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and so you know, it's in the trenches, right? Like all those things, but that's also where you learn a lot because you're like, How did I ever let somebody get to this point like you, right? Even though you grew up with a mom and you had kind of that softer side and you were the nice guy, I grew up with a father who was all about kind of like being respectful and humble. So, I mean, like, I couldn't leave the door when somebody left the house until their car was completely invisible, right? So we're sitting there waving like the stepfords at the at the door until they were gone. And that was like when we had to close the door, you know? And so, like, even with complete opposite spectrums, I still became the door mad, still became the nice guy. And so, you know, it's just kind of how you're built. I mean, a lot of that is natural, but a lot of it is the circumstances, but kind of the same thing, like, you know, as you're saying that, I'm like, how did I let somebody get to that point where I let them do this and it became okay? But that was my identity. Like, man, how much abuse did I actually take? And I remember my friends come up to me and said, It pissed me off the way that she I said, Why didn't you tell me? Like, would you have listened?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_04:Probably not. Yeah, but if you recognize it, you know, and and I had some friends where they're like, Oh, they're still friends with her, you know, because of they didn't want it to be awkward. And I had one friend who was like, screw that. He's like, I'm not gonna talk with her. He's like, and if you go back with her, I'm not talking to you either, you know, because that's stupid. And it's it's kind of interesting to see like how the dynamic happens.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, for sure, man. I think some of the relationships I've had, you know, before I got married, I just I just allowed them to kind of because I was so addicted to the feeling of love, right? But it's not just a feeling, it's like it's not that's and that's what I always thought. Like, ooh, that like giddy, that that like heart flutter or that, you know, whatever. Yeah, sure, that's all fine and dandy, but how long does that last? Usually not that long. As soon as people not feel it anymore, they're like, Oh, I don't, I don't, I don't love this person anymore. Bro, love is work. I'm gonna go on to the next. It is work, dude, and it's fucking hard, man. It's hard to show love all the time, and it's hard to love your significant person. I mean, I say that, and I love my wife very dearly, and I know you love your wife very dearly too, but there I dude that we are we are constantly changing as humans, and it's like almost we have to like fall in and out of love with our significant love, uh our significant other over and over and over again as a choice.
SPEAKER_04:Yes, yes, well, that's absolutely what it is, right? And so I love this term. There's a poet that I heard that wrote a poem, but it says love is a verb. Right.
SPEAKER_01:It's a song by Toby Mack, too, actually. Oh, is it?
SPEAKER_04:Okay. Yeah. And so obviously, you know, verb is uh an action, right? But damn, some days, man, like love is stagnant too. Totally, bro. Like, there's some days when I'm like, I need time to miss you. Yeah, for sure. Right. Yeah. And unless you have some shit to do. Yeah. But I remember like my wife used to hate that. Yeah. You know, and she and I used to tell her, like, hey, I just need today, I just need time to miss you. And she'd be like, what does that mean? Are you out of falling out of love with me? And I'm like, no.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:But the thing is, is that like you ever been so close to something for so long, and then it's like, then, you know, like I don't know. I like to use a different analogy. So I think of like a marshmallow, right? And how it's sticky, and that's kind of like the best part because it's all gooey. But then, like, if it sits there for too long, then it loses its luster, you know, it gets all hard, it's all gross, you know, all that stuff. And so I I try to equate it's just like, look, I'm not saying I don't love you. I'm not saying that this impacts anything. Like, I just need a break. You got to remember, I grew up literally fending for myself since I've been in third grade. You know, I didn't have somebody to hug me at the end of the day, say you're gonna be fine. Like, I had to do that myself. There was a period of time when I went almost eight years without crying, and I know that fucked me up too. So, you know, if there's a day where I just need to miss you for a couple of hours, come back at the end of the day and I'll hug you. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, it's like hanging out. You know, I grew up in a Mexican household, so I had cousins coming out of every corner. But I uh even hanging out with my cousins, dude, like more than like a couple days, and then we would start fighting. Even my mom or my parents would be like, dude, you guys gotta fuck that's time. Yeah, it's time to stop because you know you want to hang out and then spend the night, and then hang out all the next day and spend the night, and then by the third or fourth day you're fighting and punching each other, and you just need, I mean, I think we strive for connection, but I think we also strive to be alone sometimes too, so we can kind of process everything and reflect and reflect and miss and things like that. But yeah, man, I um yeah, dude, I think that's a big issue with the divorce rate, right? Is that people just think love is a feeling and it's not, dude. I mean, yeah, it is sure, but like at the beginning, yeah. But I mean, I at the end of the day, dude, I think it's more of a choice than it is a feeling of anything.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, you know, everyone sells the fairy tale. Yeah. Right? Oh, till you know, forever. Um, this is my my person. Um, you know, now you hear all this situation chips, right? Yeah, for sure. And the the drastic change. But you know, I think um it's it's really hard, especially right now. I think I would almost like the thought of being single and trying to figure out what somebody's about, because now you gotta match not only on a physical aspect to be an attraction, then you gotta match on the emotional aspect. Now like people can't even keep friends because of political differences. Um, and then your your thoughts on you know, having kids and and vaccinations, and you know, the list just keeps getting like bigger and bigger and bigger, and all these people seem to like they can't even match on one thing, much less be compatible on several other things, you know, and so like um a lot of business owners that you know, somebody asked me the other day, why is there such an explosion of AI right now? And I said, because 70% of business owners can't offer what they once used to, right? Because of lack of work, because of people not being able to keep up, because their reputation suffers, because they can't keep up with demand. So a lot of AI was released to help people to get a fraction of their time back to be able to execute some of the things that they once used to be able to do. But now we're getting to this point where you got people in AI relationships, and it's like you know, I joke sometimes that AI is my best employee because it doesn't roll its eyes, it doesn't get mad at me, just says, yes, let me go ahead and complete the task. So I can only imagine if you're in a toxic relationship and you go to AI, man, that's gotta feel like a night and day difference.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think a lot of people have these relationships with AIs because AIs don't have any flaws, right? They don't have any baggage that comes along with the relationship. And I think when it's human-to-human interaction, especially today's generation, they expect that other person not to have any baggage, even though they do. But how much baggage is being of of themselves that's being worked through, that's being processed, that's bringing none of it. None of it. And they're just they expect the other side, you know, when they meet somebody else, that they're they don't come with any baggage. And every it reality is we all do. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And what was that trend that the women were going through? They wanted a guy that was six foot tall, made six figures, didn't have any kids. Meanwhile, like all the all the retaliatory jokes were like that these women have two or three kids from two or three baby daddies. Oh, yeah, they're on welfare and that they're like, you know, five foot and overweight, like, you know, um it's it's crazy. Um, and again, like what you want, whatever, right? Uh, but what I'm saying though is like like you said, nobody's working through this, nobody's acknowledging, and it's almost like um I don't know if placebo is the right word, but it's like an effect to basically put a band-aid to make you feel like that you're you're you're worthwhile. And again, I'm not saying that you're not, but what I'm saying is that you're not fixing and you're not addressing the issues or the pain. And so that's this uh AI relationship or this chat bot that you're using to maybe help overcome some of that stuff, a lot of it is just trained to basically be helpful in and respond to whatever you're giving it. And so if you're not, you know, maybe you're not at that point where you can be honest, and even if you did, it's still going to tell you the things that you want to hear. You know, so it's like we're in some ways, how is that going to impact mental health? Like you're giving maybe some people some confidence, but is it a false confidence? Sure. Or are you helping people cope through things, but maybe it's a false cope because they've never they haven't done the real deep dive work to be able to get through that. So it is going to be an interesting time frame.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but it's moving fast too, man. You know, I think I think AI, because I use Chat GPT quite a quite a quite a bit, and I actually think it helped me in my recovery of anxiety a lot, and I'll explain here in a second, but it's you know, I think it has a lot to do with the questions that we ask it. Just like it's the same as the thoughts that we feed our mind. 100%. So when I'm asking chat, like, hey, like, why, like, for example, like I wouldn't be like, hey, why do I feel this way? Or because it's gonna give me a generic question, like, right? So, you know, a lot of the things that I started asking it was like, hey, this is how I feel, this is what I ate today, these are the supplements I've taken today, or these are the supplement that like this is the things I haven't taken today. What are some things that I can eat or feed myself that will help me feel better? Because a lot of the stuff that we put in our body physically comes out.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:You know what I mean? So, you know, it'd be like, oh, have a high high have something in high protein with a little bit of carbs and make sure you take your vitamin D and your vitamin C and your K2 today, something to feed the serotonin and the dopamine inside your body versus you know, so I think it's the same thing, dude, as far as what we ask it. That's gonna help or not help. Yeah, right. Something under the driver of the vehicle. Yeah, for sure. Same thing with your thoughts. Are you feeding it negativity or are you just feeding it positively? Yeah, your intentions. Yeah, for sure. And like, like I said before, if people can figure out to think greater than they feel, because dude, I there's so many people out here that just feel like shit. Right. And they feed it and they feed it and they feed it and they feed it. Yeah. And I get it. It's hard to think like you've created an identity within yourself that this thing is a part of you, this anxiety, this depression, this mental illness, this OCD. I mean, whatever, right? How many people walk around saying they have ADHD or OCD or anxiety when it's really like, dude, just go like take the right stuff, feed your body nutrition. And I'm not saying that's all that's everything. It's just a part of the puzzle that's gonna help you feel better, right? Yeah, yeah. And it's the same thing with your thoughts, dude. Are you like, what are you feeding it? Right. Like, are you are you continuing to flee feed the negative frequencies or the positive frequencies? You know, something you said earlier that you know, I was already living in hell. Yeah, you know, that and that something I've learned on my spiritual journey in this past, you know, few years is that biblically, I think, you know, I and I think we touched on this uh either last time or when we talked afterwards, so we should have recorded, but um was that you know, I think the Bible was written to be taught parables, just like Jesus. I don't think it was ever taken, I don't think it was ever written to be taken literal. Maybe some things, but I think for the most part, dude, you know, I grew up in a strong Christian household just like you were, but I was always taught to fear God, right? That God was an angry God and He was a jealous God and He needed to be worshipped and He needed all these things in order for Him to love you. And this is the this is one of the biggest things that resonated with me during my rock bottom time was that God is not an angry God, He's an all-loving God, He's not out to get you, He's not up, He's not up there writing down all your wrongs and keeping track of everything. And that was something that and you know, you gotta fear this devil, you have to fear this thing. But I think, you know, scripture when it said, you know, choose life or choose death, I think that means now. I don't think it meant after death, like do we choose to go to hell or go to heaven? Right. I think we have a choice to have heaven on earth here, or we can have our hell on earth here, which you and I have both went through.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that was the most mind-blowing thing for me. And I know that this is gonna be like some people are gonna be like, duh, but you know, we've always had this idea that God gives us a choice, free will, right? And for some reason, for me growing up, and in in my mind, it was always like you make a choice, you deal with the action or the consequence. But when I first launched this entrepreneurial journey, just like many people do when they leave the corporate workforce, there's a bit of a guilt process because you have no idea what's coming next, right? And so there's guilt that, like, can I take care of my family? Is this really the right thing? You know, because I know I should, I could be working nine to five to do all this stuff to provide, right? I'm losing the benefits, all these things. But I remember uh my first office, this guy turned around and he wrote this book on you know law of attraction, and he's like, you know that God gives you a choice, right? And I said, Yeah, free will. And he's like, So why don't they why don't you think that you have free will in terms of choosing how you make your income, how you pursue life, or how much you make, yes, and he said it, you know, most people are just limited because they've been trained to be limited. He's like, but imagine yourself with endless income. And he's like, You think that people just come up with these ideas overnight? He's like, Some. He's like, but most people they have this imagination that they're limitless. Yeah, he's like, that's where all the successful people are. They they all everybody has a bad story. But where do they end up? And in that moment, it made sense to him, like, yeah, we do have a free, you know, free will. We have a choice to make these decisions every single day. And uh that blew my mind at that time, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, for sure, man. It's definitely, I mean, it goes back to the same thing I just said, you know, as far as thinking greater than how you feel. Yeah, you're broke and you're poor right now, and maybe that's not your fault.
SPEAKER_04:Right. Not how you started.
SPEAKER_01:But how are you gonna exactly how do you pull yourself out of it up here first? Yes, yeah. Up here and in here. Yeah, for sure. You're you're your mind, body connection, and your heart coherent, right? And it's you know, it's really easy, and something I've been working on is it's really easy to picture the worst case scenario. But if we can picture the worst case scenario, we can picture the most the best case scenario, right? But our mind's so trained to automatically go to the negative part of things that it's hard, it's that that's a hard thing to unlearn and then relearn. Right, right, you know, and even still, dude, I'm like, I catch myself, but that's the thing is that I catch myself. Yeah, I'm aware of it.
SPEAKER_04:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Most people aren't aware of anything, they're just going around reacting to everything. Yeah, they're they're living in a um, what was that thing I saw the other day? It was perspective versus perception, right? And um it it just it it just it it creates a light that like, oh okay, like I can I can think my way out of this. You know, like the movie Lucy, have you seen Lucy with Shark Scarlett Johansson? Um or Limitless with uh whether they take the pill or whatever, kind of the same thing. It's kind of honestly the same movie, just different. But you know, like what can how can we just like how can we remove the negative ideology and replace it with positive with positive fault just by being aware of it and then just flipping the script when you're thinking a negative thought, just be like, oh, I don't need to be thinking about that, let's do this instead. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Well, and I think something that's really crazy, um, and I I I never believed this during this time, but you know, I've told you I used to live stream for years, and then my whole community kind of made me to be this positive person. At one point they were saying, Oh, this is the most positive person on Twitch. And uh I remember somebody had told me, they're like, you know, it's hard to carry that burden for such a long period of time, and oftentimes the people who are the most positive have the hardest crashes or the hardest downfalls. I never thought that would happen to me. And the whole reason why I don't stream today is be basically because I had a hard crash and I could never face uh myself to to turn the mic uh and the camera back on to do it all over again. And um, you know, so it's interesting because also on the flip side of that, people that go through some of the worst things, right? We've heard this over and over again, turn out to be the most successful because when your back is against the wall, you have to figure out what that looks like. How many businesses didn't have a dime left, how many p people were, you know, uh getting ready to be kicked out, and then the one thing happens or you know, they failed all their life and all of a sudden the one thing was successful. So you know, there is no script for how life can go. But you know, if you don't have a plan, if you don't have the ability to, like you said, think for yourself and and be conscious, then it's almost like you're letting it auto play, and who knows what the outcome is gonna look like.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, sure. Yeah, totally.
SPEAKER_04:I know we're not the same people we were yesterday, much less 10 years ago, 15 years ago, right? But it's when you look back on kind of where you've been to where you're at, you know, I think the most important thing is you want your past to be proud of its future. You know, that concept and that image in my mind has always kind of been like, you know, obviously you don't want to stare too far ahead, you don't want to stare in the back, you want to kind of be have your you know be where your feet are. But I think when you look back on some of those things to see what you've gone through, would it would you be would your old self be able to turn around and look at you and give you a hug and be like, thank you.
SPEAKER_01:You know what I mean? I think that's an important thing about mental mental illness. I hate say I hate saying that. Every time I say it, I'm like, what like why why am I saying mental illness? But is I remember this one dude, I was in the shower, dude. I was still kind of in the in the in the deep like the bottom depths of my, you know, whatever. And I just remember having a conversation with little me and just being like, hey dude, it's gonna be okay. Like we're, you know, like I think that's really important to do as far as a healing a part of your healing journey is talk to that little boy or that little girl that was in that fight or flight mode, and just be like, hey, and just comfort and you know, be that safe place for that person. It's weird how like what is that? You know what I mean? Like, what is that like us reflecting on us as little children and saying, hey, like it's gonna be okay. Like what like what do you think that is?
SPEAKER_04:You know, I think it's uh closing the doors, closure. You know, I remember uh going through that where I had to hug my inner child through a therapy session one time, and it was crazy because the concept never had no idea it was coming, had no idea that that was a thing. But I remember almost immediately after hugging that inner child, you know, through a therapy session, closing the door to be able to say it's okay to move on, for that inner child of me to say I'm good, to know that I was that that portion of me was safe, that I could move forward. Oh man, felt like boulders coming off of my body.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but what do you think that is in your brain that's that's like holding on to that hurt and it needs you to comfort it?
SPEAKER_04:I think it's holding on to that deepness, right? That the thing that's so heavy that we like I said, you either tuck it away or you try to make logical sense of it. And I think it's basically just giving you a closure to say, you know what, this part of your your life is good. You're you can move forward now.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I feel like there should be some type of machine, which I'm sure it's coming. That's like, hey, this is what you're dealing with, and this is in your subconscious mind, and this is what's this is what's causing the struggle in you right now. Yeah, let's let's fix it this way or let's imagine it this way or whatever, you know. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Well, and and who knows, right? I mean, a lot of people would argue that maybe psilocybin is that or ayahuasca, you know. Yeah, totally.
SPEAKER_01:I was gonna touch on mushrooms for sure. I think that definitely opens the doorway to dealing with stuff that you never realized you had to deal with. Right, right.
SPEAKER_04:You know, and we talked about mushrooms for quite a while last time, but uh I think it's interesting just to kind of see you know the different processes and the different stories, you know, and again, um, you know, I can't remember if it was you or Aaron that basically said, you know, maybe there's a reason why it's been safeguarded, you know, um, and and been uh not open to the public personally for a long time, you know. Control. Yeah, yeah. So who knows? You know, at some point, you know, I mean, we know where we're at now, and you know, people are getting more and more useful idea of a lot of natural medicines. And so it'll be interesting to kind of see where all that happens. And you know, we live in this weird space right now where we're getting more and more technologically advanced to an you know an unprecedented level that we've never experienced before, right? Before we used to go to Google or YouTube University and we had to watch somebody. Now it's like in real time, here's the stuff. But then also at the same time, we're getting more and more away from some of the stuff that we've been reliant on, these chemicals, the all the things in our foods now that are coming out, you know. Um, so it's a weird time frame because we're getting more natural, but we're getting more technology heavy. Um, and what is that going to look like in the next couple of years?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that is weird. I think I heard it on Rogan or something that kids are more now conscious about what they're putting in their body than they were 10 years ago. Right. You know, when I was a teenager or whatever, you know, we were just eating everything and anything all the time. And yeah, um, but kids are going to the gym more. I don't know what that is, but you're absolutely right, dude. It's like we're our our technological is our technology is getting more and more advanced, and then I don't know, maybe that has to do with something with each other, right?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I I have a thing, you know, maybe maybe it's the education. So um, yeah, there's there's so many things that are happening right now, and man, I know like it's crazy because our time goes so fast every every week, every episode. And uh the good news is that uh we'll be able to keep doing this, but you know, I think that for today that's gonna be our time. And um, man, this has been I know we're only two episodes in, but this has been so refreshing. And I think that if we go back to our mission of why we started this, is so that way we could have deep and honest thoughts, but also paint that awareness for other men to know that they can have outlets just like this.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely, dude. I I couldn't agree more, man. And I I love this for us. Um, you know, Aaron, thanks, man, for everything that you do. And thank you. Um I just think it's gonna continue continue to grow, dude. And I think it's gonna be a great um outlet for men, women, kids. I mean, maybe not, I don't know, maybe not kids. I'll talk about some stuff. But I don't know, dude. Who knows? I mean, the way the the world's going, man, it's like we got to treat 12-year-olds like 18-year-olds now, you know. So yeah, um, but just know that there's a there's a place to be safe, dude. And I think this is gonna be it for a lot of people.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and uh guys, if you are tuning in, um if there's anything that resonated with you, please reach out. We'll have our contact info in the show notes. And um, you know, I think uh after this episode, we're gonna start going to video as well. So really excited uh about that. And um we'll also have a newsletter for you guys to sign up uh and an email list as well, so that way you can ask questions and we can get those into the show. But uh again, this has been another great episode of mental mentality. And uh, you know, signing off today, uh, I'm Patrick Marikami.
SPEAKER_01:Hell yeah, Brandon Hickman. See you later.
SPEAKER_04:Catch you guys on the next one.