SPEAKER_02: 0:02

What's up guys? Welcome to another episode of Mental Mentality. I'm Patrick Murakami.

SPEAKER_01: 0:06

Brandon Hickman.

SPEAKER_02: 0:08

Week three, man. Um well I guess episode three rather. Yeah. How you feeling?

SPEAKER_01: 0:13

The f for the about the podcast or about in life? Both. I'm fucking exhausted. But the podcast is great, dude. I love it, man. I love doing it with you. And Aaron back there is killing it too. Yeah. But uh yeah, man, I'm excited to be here.

SPEAKER_02: 0:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 0:28

Took us a minute, but here we are.

SPEAKER_02: 0:29

Yeah, well, it seems like it takes a minute every week, but that's alright. Um no, I'm excited. You know, I feel like that this is a good safe haven for me. And uh even when I'm tired, coming to be able to do this because we know the mission is bigger than that, you know, bigger than us.

SPEAKER_01: 0:44

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, it feels like for me, man, just uh even like even like beating all the stigmas and shit, right? Like I just feel like talking with you guys just makes me feel just makes me feel better. You know what I mean? Like I just feel good after I leave, I feel energized. Um I you know, haven't you know, I haven't slept well for a couple days because of you know what I was talking about earlier, but you know, I just feel like I come here and I just feel like like a weight's been lifted off my shoulders, you know what I mean? I don't know what that is, whether I'm just getting my getting stuff off my chest or just the the the act of uh the act of service type thing, you know. So yeah, man, happy to be here always. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02: 1:27

And we officially launched our Facebook page and uh other socials are coming. Uh we've got two episodes uploaded, but just not uh available to the public yet. So uh by the time that you guys hear this, obviously it will be available. But I'm excited for that. And you know, just kind of talking about the premise of what we're doing. I've had so many other guys turn around and say, you know, that's much needed. Even women say, you know what, this is a great platform. We need this. Um, you know, uh I know a lot of veterans who could benefit from something like that, or if you're looking for guests, you know, we have some people. So I'm really excited from that aspect as well to know that it's not just men who are supporting this, it's families, it's women, um, it's mothers, it's uh sisters, you know, um and daughters who are turning around and say, My father um really needs to listen to this. So as soon as you get that out, please let us know. So I'm really excited that to know that there is genuinely a want for this type of podcast.

SPEAKER_01: 2:25

Yeah, for sure. I'm super excited, man. I think it's gonna help a lot of people. I think we're gonna grow really, really fast. Um, not just because of the people that we know, but um, you know, I think because you grew up here, right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, we both grew up here, we both know a lot of people, and I think it'll be uh um just not it won't I don't I don't foresee this just being like in Colorado Springs, right? I feel this being worldwide, um nationwide, whatever. I feel it growing really quickly.

SPEAKER_02: 2:54

I think there's well, and maybe this is we just get right into it, like there's so many stigmas around men's mental health. Um, in one of our local Facebook groups, somebody had uh posted saying, I feel like that men's mental health month got bypassed this year. There was you know no talks about it. And of course the immediate rebuttal was why do men need a month for mental health? We as women and single women go through all this stuff, and somebody was like, you know, it's the same month as uh the LGBT community and all these things. And so it's like even just to have a presence, there's always maybe a battle already there, right? And I'm again, I'm not saying that it's maybe more deserving than the other one, but we definitely there's not a single comment. I didn't see anybody anything on my timeline at all from anybody saying anything. So it's kind of weird that um that even though we have all of these materials that we've never had before, that we still don't have any awareness as m you know, and that's a weird place to be because people still don't want to come forward, people still don't want to talk about it. It's still considered to be taboo.

SPEAKER_01: 4:05

Yeah, for sure. You know, I think it comes down to like a state of even like feeling guilty because they're trying to put themselves first when they have a family to provide for or bills to pay or whatever, or it comes down to shame where they feel shameful because of what they went through or some addiction that they came out of, right? Because you know, some addiction leads to some type of mental health disorder or whatever. But um, you know, even for guys in the military, dude, like they saw, and I've never been, you've never been, so I don't I can't speak for what they've seen over there, but I can't even imagine like seeing my best friend get blown up next to me. But like also after it's done, like it's done, and we're just told to again pick ourselves up by the bootstraps and keep going. And we never really especially as men, we don't ever really like take the time to process and handle it. So then what does that do? It's an energy, it's an emotion that gets stored in our body that tends to try and like venom, right? Like tries to work itself out, and the way it works itself out is PTSD, depression, anxiety, addiction, things like that. And then going talking about the awareness part. You know, I've said this before, so excuse me if I sound like a broken record, but most people are walking around this earth not aware of anything. They just think that who they are and what they feel is what it is, and there's nothing that anybody can do about it. Here's a bunch of medication, deal with it. Yeah, sure, that puts a band-aid on it, but let's get down to the root cause and figure out why you're having these feelings, why you feel the way that you feel, and you know, how do we how do we make you feel better so you can lead a life worth living to where you don't have to feel like you have to commit suicide or be alone or you know, whatever that whatever that looks like for that specific person. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 5:52

And I can't recall if we talked about this live uh in a recording, but there's uh also an identity loss that happens, right? Uh especially in married men. So we I don't know if we talked about this or not, but married men who go through divorce, I think it was um what I say, one in twenty or something like that. Um high percentage that basically end up dead because they have no identity, because they think their life is over. And you know, uh I was once told that women think kind of like spaghetti. You can mix all kinds of stuff and they just kind of like they can process, they can knock out all the tasks all at once, and they they can kind of do it all together. But for us guys, we kind of think one square at a time, like a waffle. Yeah, exactly. And so, you know, we can't think of everything, and the minute you start pouring other stuff on top of it, it's like overload. Yeah. But you know, when you are in like as a business owner, we wear many different hats, right? You've got your marketing, you've got your sales, you've got the business, you've got, you know, your accounting, you're responsible for employees and training, customer service, right? All those different aspects. And then you go home and you think it'd be easy to just turn that off and then just have the the couple of hats for being a dad or being a husband or whatever, but it's weird because it's almost easier to wear all those other hats than come home and just have the one or two hats.

SPEAKER_01: 7:18

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02: 7:19

And that like blows my mind because I'm like, how? How is that harder?

SPEAKER_01: 7:23

Yeah. Yeah, dude, I mean you're right, dude. I mean, I I really have a hard time thinking about everything all at one time. And um I don't I don't really know how to like explain to a man how not to do that. I just think that's like goes back to like tribal days, right? Where we were just our responsibility was to hunt and gather, and that's what we did, and then protect. Yeah, and protect, yeah, absolutely, for sure.

SPEAKER_02: 7:53

Yeah, it's it's an interesting uh concept of all that, you know, and they talk a lot about chemical imbalance, right? And so of course we've heard the the terms toxic masculinity and and all these things. But what's interesting to me is that why is it okay for women to be unbalanced, for them to play the dual role, right? But then they expect guys to well, I guess guys expect guys to just be okay with the unbalanced piece.

SPEAKER_01: 8:26

Yeah, I mean that is a little weird. I mean you go back to and that's just something that you and I have both heard from Oh man, I'm just and and don't take don't take offense to this, but you know, oh I'm on my period, I just you know, like it is what it is, and that's just an that's just an expectation that like okay, my wife is it's her time of the month and she's her hormones are all over the place, and she's having a chemical imbalance and in her dopamine, her serotonin, and and her um her uh what is it uh tryptophan or the uh not tryptophan, the love hormone. What is that? Oh I don't know. Do you do you know anywho? Um and that's just expect it, right? Like it's just okay, like give her some time, get her some food, like whatever, you know? Like why like why is it like it was always funny, like I just need some chocolate. Well that raises dopamine and serotonin, you know what I mean? So but like as a man, dude, I mean, yeah, why why is it why I feel like sometimes I have my own time of the month, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02: 9:31

Where I'm like my wife swears guys have their time of the month too.

SPEAKER_01: 9:35

Oh, dude, I'm super irritable, I'm pissed off, I'm tired, I got a headache, I want to sleep, I want to eat a bunch of shit, I want to sit on the couch and smoke weed and binge watch some shows and eat some junk food, you know. And um, you know, I think that's what's most important though, is like even if you don't want to speak out about it, you gotta take the time to kind of let yourself unwind and heal, right? Because I feel like as men, and maybe that's the reason is that we're always expected to go, go, go, go, and we never really take the time to just right and just breathe through it, you know. So I don't know, dude. I don't know the answer to that, and I'm sure you don't either, but I don't know why the reason that that stigma is based off of one gender and not the other, and yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 10:17

It's just interesting, you know, when you look at those things, and you know, I feel like for me, like the whole reason why I have an office is just so I can have quiet time. Sure. Right? Like, yeah, I'm more productive here than I am working from home. Right. And and when I first started, it was worse because I think my wife just assumed because I was home I could run her errands for her business. Yeah. Hey, can you go get this? Hey, can you do that? I once had a a mentor who also told me that our relationships, especially with the ones that we love, change very drastically. And so when you first start out, everything is oh, like like your your girlfriend calls you. Hey baby, can you go to the store and pick up this? I I'm gonna make you your favorite dinner or whatever, right? To then your wife calling, hey, I need you to go to the store and pick up this, this, and this, your kids need it for school tomorrow, right? And so we go from like this um this honeymood phase of asking to this command and demand type communication style. And then people wonder what happened to the romance. People are like, Well, well, you know, you don't buy me flowers anymore. I'm like, Yeah, because all we hear is just the demands. We don't hear the requests anymore, and it changes the dynamic, you know what I mean? Like, I get it, people are busy. Um, but when you look at that, you know, like there's so many people where they're so used to being told what to do. And I think there's a lot of men also that are basically comfortable, they get comfortable hearing all those things. So it's definitely a huge shift, I think, when we go into the business when we're telling people what to do, to then going home and maybe a man is basically being told what to do, being bossed around because you know, when he's at the shop, he gets in control. When he's not maybe at home, maybe he's not, and there's automatically a huge shift.

SPEAKER_01: 12:11

Yeah, sure. I mean, I will say, dude, me and my wife are pretty good about like that part of our relationship is really good. I do get like I feel guilty sometimes when I'm when she calls, because we'll like FaceTime each other during the day, and usually usually I'm on my couch of my shop with my computer in front of me, doing sales calls, running numbers, trying to get more business in the door, whatever. And some in my and she's never said this, but in my own head, I'm like, let me go walk around the shop while I'm on FaceTime so she thinks I'm like doing stuff, you know, and just because like you're right, dude, at home, man, it's hard with the kids, like in my face, trying to make sales calls and trying to concentrate, and wife wanting me to do stuff because like naturally I think when I am home, she does expect me to change diapers and make cloth or make food and things like that, and just when I'm at the shop, I don't have to do any of that. I'm just I'm I'm dialed into what I need to be doing as a business owner, and that's what I'm doing. But as far as like being bossed around and stuff, I mean I definitely see that in other relationships. But for me, dude, I think the communication part is the biggest thing too, like, especially with men's mental health, man, just talk to her. Like if and it doesn't, if it doesn't, if you guys can't have that conversation as a couple and really being like, hey, I really don't like how you talk to me that way. I prefer you to like I'll always say yes, but like also just ask me, don't demand me. Like, you know what I mean? Like, can you please do this? Can you please do that? And I I feel like me and my wife are very, very strong in that. I mean, we've been together for 10 years, dude. We have to find the the the middle ground somewhere as far as like you know, but I mean I do get like I've seen other couples where they're like barking orders at each other and they bicker all the time. And um but then is the man just supposed to just cower down and just ex ac ac you know accept that? Right. I mean I don't think so, but you know, that comes down to the communication part of things of being in a relationship and having but I also think it goes both ways. Like if I if you expect me to if I expect if you expect me to give you flowers every Tuesday, then I'm gonna get fucking so much hate for this. If I'm gonna give you flowers every Tuesday, then I expect to have sex every week. And that's just not something that is you know, that's a very like it's a teeter-totter, and usually it's lying one way where like wife expects you to do one thing and then it's not expected on the other side of things because they don't really that may be your need and that's my need. Right. And I don't feel like it's even right. And that's why I really try really hard. Like when I am home, I want to cook, I'll take care of my kids, I'll take over so my wife can go have her me time and and things like that. And I just I try and make it I mean my wife both try and make it as even as we can so we can grow in our relationship, right?

SPEAKER_02: 15:10

So yeah, the communication I think is the missing component for so many relationships. And it social media doesn't make it easy either, right? Because everyone's playing a comparison game, everybody's always like, Oh, well, see, her husband did this. I'm like, you're seeing the best parts, right, of social media, because that's what social media teaches you. Right? My wife in her salon, she hears all these stories of uh all of the you know, the husbands, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Yeah. And I'm like, you know, I'm not him. Yeah, right? Which is comparison, dude.

SPEAKER_01: 15:42

Yeah, you shouldn't do that.

SPEAKER_02: 15:43

Yeah, yeah. But it what's also nice though is that you kind of hear some of the worst things and you're like, man, I'm glad that we don't have that. I'm glad that we can we've talked about that. We we align and those things. But that's really like the biggest thing is that you find that most couples stop talking. And they stopped talking a long time ago.

SPEAKER_01: 16:03

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02: 16:04

You know, and then they became tolerating.

SPEAKER_01: 16:06

Right. I mean, what does that come down to? I mean, as a as kids, and I do it as a parent, I really try not to, but like my four-year-old's in her why stage, and it fucking drives me nuts. Everything I ask her, it's a why, and it's my response is always because I told you to, right? So, I mean, does that do you think that has anything to do with as we grow up? Like, that's just what like what since we were born to the day we were in grade school to middle school to high school. Uh huh. Do what you're told. Right. I mean, how much of that does but that's not necessarily supposed to transform into relationship, right? But we carry those things into a relationship of like, oh, I'm supposed to be told, I'm supposed to do what I'm told on both ends of the spectrum, not just men listening to women, but women listening to men. Right. But like, you know, off tan, I mean not really off tangent, but speaking about women, real quick, why do women stay with men that beat them? Right. You know, it's because they think they can change them. Yeah, for sure. Think they think they can change them, and also like, oh, he loves me. I'm just you know, I'm just supposed to be doing what I'm told, and that goes both ways.

SPEAKER_02: 17:09

Yeah, you know, well and they're they're used to the abuse in some way, shape, or form, right? Oftentimes. But it's funny because you were bringing that up, and this there's an old I guess it you know, it's probably still pre prominent today when people say, Oh, couples are supposed to fight, right? It's healthy for people to fight. And and I would agree to a certain extent, uh, arguments, you know, from time to time blowing off steam, but a lot of people cross that line where they say things that they're not supposed to, they say things that are hard to recover from. That is definitely far from healthy, right? But how many of us grew up with parents covering that up to say, no, it's healthy for us to be able to do that and get this out? But I'm like, you're literally like punching dad in the face, you told two seconds ago, how is that healthy? Yeah, you know, or you know, you're you're throwing things and and you're breaking things around the house, that's not healthy. But you know, there's this old stigma that parents have basically said to kind of sweep it under the rug for the kids. You know. But um anyway, I w I want to highlight on something that uh is actually when we first talked about doing this podcast. Uh you had posted, I remember, I believe it was a Facebook post where you talked about basically with your daughter and how sometimes like, you know, we oftentimes just kind of sweep what they're saying under the rug instead of just answering the question. So yeah, I I get it, the why piece, right, in that phase. But you had also talked about how it was important to take that time to maybe answer those questions, right? And so walk us through that a little bit because I know we all go through that as parents where it's like we spend, I think the saying, right, is you spend the first couple of years trying to get them to talk, and you spend the rest of their life trying to get them to shut up. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01: 19:02

Um I don't remember that post, but I'm sure I don't I don't doubt it. Definitely something I I feel like I should have said, but or I I would have said. But um I guess what I meant by that is you know, even like because I have all ages, right? I have two-year-old, four-year-old, and a twelve-year-old. And my four-year-old's in her why stage, my two-year-old doesn't say much still. Um, and then my twelve-year-old um is just and she's just a twelve-year-old, you know, and and a twelve-year-old female. And um, as far as answering questions and just taking the time to answer the why questions, other than you know, because I told you so, like they're trying like especially for the four-year-old, like she's just trying to figure out her place in the world, right? She's trying to figure out why how stuff works, why it is the way that it is, and I'm really trying to make sure that she doesn't grow up with a the same mentality that I grew up in, right? Like, I'm really trying to make sure that she is like free-spirited, she's free-minded, she has her own thoughts, she has her own feelings, she has her own, you know, I don't want her to be based off of that, you know, but like after the a millionth why for the day, I'm like, just fucking do it, dude, because I told you to, that's why. You know, and then as far as my 12-year-old, I just, you know, she is starting to like boys, she's starting to um, you know, find her place in the world as you know, as she's transforming from a little girl to a teenager and then to a woman, right? And it for me to take the time as a father to make her understand or help her through why things happen the way that they happen, right? And um, you know, like you know, not uh last week my wife had my wife had surgery and she had a partial hysterectomy, and it wasn't a big deal. I mean, women have it all the time and survival rate is very high, and you know, my my my 12-year-old was just super irritable, super mean to her sisters, and like just like just not really acting herself. So I kind of you know I took the time to go and ask her, like, hey, like what is going on? Well, she has this like mentality that like every time something is gonna happen, like a surgery, or we leave on a long road trip, or that we're gonna die, right? We're not gonna come back home. And um, just really I'm not trying to get off tangent here, but or off topic here, but just really taking the time to explain like one death is a part of life, but two, like, also like and I've said this before, but like you are just having in truth uh intrusive thoughts that are making you feel some type of way in your body because that's that's the way the mind and the wine-body connection works, right? So um, I mean, I guess that's really it, you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_02: 21:49

I don't I don't really remember why I posted that or what you know what, but I think it was just uh if I rem recall correctly, it was basically just uh I think it was your probably your four-year-old where you basically realized that she was just um like oftentimes parents try to hurry, right? Because they're on their timeline, that they're on their schedule. Yeah, sure, sure. And then you're saying that how you felt a little bit guilty, but you also, you know, as parents, we should pause, right? And remember that like it they're not on a timeline, and so to be rushed suddenly, right? And all those types of things. So it was important to basically try and pause in the moment. Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_01: 22:25

You know, to me, man, kids are very um, especially between that age of like two and six, I would feel like they're very um they're very uh they're very conscious, they're very aware, they're very they're they're taking everything in, right? That's their time where their brain is is taking as much in as they possible as possible. And you know, us as adults, we see this busy world and we're always go, go, go. And you know, it just really I'm reading the book. Have you ever read the book The Power of Now? Um no, I think it's okay. Great book, and it's talking about presence right now and just being present. Okay, and um a lot of us just aren't present. We're always thinking about shit that happened in the past or what's gonna happen next, or you know, how am I gonna get my bills paid or how am I gonna raise my kids or whatever? And um, I think a big thing, especially just as a man that owns his own business, has has a couple jobs to provide for his family, and just something that keeps me sane is like when I am I just feel the most free when I am present, and that's just in in general, but especially with my kids, you know, whether they're playing at the park or playing um, you know, or whether it's coloring or just taking the time really just to spend time with them outside of the busy lives we have, but also being present in that moment, right? Like, how many how many times have I even like I'm doing something with my kids, but in the back of my head, I'm not there, right? You know, like being a present father isn't just about showing up, right? It's about being present when you do show up, yeah. Right? And so that's my biggest thing, dude. And I I I just you know, there was one time where my kids, my kid wanted, and it was just me and her. She I want she wanted Chick-fil-A, and she wanted to go eat inside. And I was like, no, we gotta, we gotta go do this, we gotta go do that, we gotta do that. And she kind of like lost her shit a little bit, and just like as a four-year-old, she threw a little tantrum. It was like, well, why can't we just go inside and eat? I just and I had to like take a step back and just be like, she just wants to spend time with me. Because that's her like I'm her pride and joy, and that's like I I am what she looks up to, and she just wants to spend time with me. So instead of I got out of the drive-thru, and I think that's actually when I posted that. We went inside, and we just took the time and it just made her world, dude. Right, and all I had to do was put something on pause that really didn't need to happen right away. Sure. And in the grand scheme of things, nothing really needs to happen right away, right? Right? I mean, does that meeting have to happen right now? Yeah, I mean, sure, we want to meet we want to be professional and make sure that we're we're there on time or whatever, but um, I don't know where I was going or what I was doing. I think honestly, there was a timeline in my head that we had to be somewhere, and it wasn't necessarily somewhere that we had to be. We went to Air 360 or something, you know what I mean? In my head, we had to be there at this time. But if we went, if we went and got Chick-fil-A and sat there, we're not gonna get there on the and it's just gonna screw up my whole day because of my own OCD, right? Well, she doesn't have OCD, she doesn't know I have OCD, like she's just and in my head I had a plan, but in her head, she just wanted to spend time with dad. Right. You know, so I think that was the whole thing with that, and just just not just showing up, but also being present when you are there.

SPEAKER_02: 25:49

Yeah. Well, what what I took away from that post is you know, oftentimes we forget because we're adults now, right? But these kids are unlocking core memories. And so I remember we're probably about Maddox is about four or five, and uh we used to go to drifters to get burgers, and he never really ate burgers, he just but the the first time that he did, we just popped the the back of the trunk and just kind of sat in the back and eating it. And so every time that he wanted to eat a burger, he was like, Can we, you know, open up the trunk? And it was like I just kept saying no for some reason because like we were again, we were going home, we're doing something, it's getting dark, whatever. And then one time, like I said yes, and he was like, So every single time he's like, he's like, Yes, look like you know, it and for him it was like associating the burger meant that we were gonna have that time in in the back, and I I didn't understand that time why it was so important. And so now he's like, he's like, Oh dad, let's go to Culver's, right? And so now he loves burgers, you know. But it's um you know, it's one of those things where it's like it started off as that core memory, and how many times did I say no, not knowing that that was a core memory for him, and that was something that he associated with that, and it took me years, right? So I'm like, dang, how many missed opportunities did I have in regards to that? Now, you know, he wants to go and he's like he's like, Oh yeah, he's like there there's a culverse there, remember that, so we're if we're on this side of town or whatever, right? But now, like, you know, mom doesn't care for the burgers as much, so that's kind of our thing. But it's cool that it's evolved from that core memory that he had that again I didn't know, but now that I do know, you know, it's something that we can share. Um, but it's that uh post that you had actually had kind of taken me in introspect to be able to look at all that.

SPEAKER_01: 27:35

Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, dude, I just think it's it's important to spend time with not just your kids, but like your wife, going back to the you know, spending time with your wife and how people don't communicate anymore. And um just in general, dude, I just really think if people were more present, they wouldn't have so much anxiety or so much depression. Now, I will say that I went through a time in my life where no matter what I did, I felt like shit. Like no matter what I did, I felt like I was dying every day. Right. Not because I wanted to die, but because I like what was happening inside my body, I I wasn't in control of. And um there was a long time where I wasn't present in my kids' life, you know, and when I went through what I went through as far as like my nervous breakdown, we only had one kid at the time, and she was five. And I don't really remember a much between her being five and her being eight, you know, because those were the three years where I was like in it, and I just felt like shit every day. And so I'm not saying that again, I'm not saying like pick yourself up and just figure it out because that's not the case, but my whole my whole reasoning around healing was to make sure that I could be present in the future, even though I missed out on a couple years of my kids' life, and then even like when I had when I had Kaya a second, I remember holding her in the hospital, and it was a fucking traumatic experience. My wife had pre-eclampsia. They all the my you know, my they we had emergency C-section, Kaya's heart rate dropped down to 40, like everything was cool, calm, and collective, and then all of a sudden there's 40 people in the in the in the room, like we gotta get this baby out now, or we're we might lose both of you. So, like, already what I'm feeling. Right. And then on top of that, like, holy shit, like I'm about to lose my kid and my wife, and then I'm gonna be a single dad to our older kid. Like, you know, so trying to juggle all that, but I remember holding my kid in the nick in the NICU, and I just didn't feel good, right? Like sweaty palms, racing hand, a racing mind, my body felt like it was buzzing, like I felt like I was just like, I just felt sick. And I just remember looking at her, and I just didn't I wasn't enjoying the experience like I feel like I should have enjoyed it. Right? Like having a newborn kid is supposed to be like one of the best experiences ever. And it ended up being that way down the road, but at the time, I just remember looking at her and just wishing that I could feel good to be able to. Enjoy the present moment, which I wasn't able to. You know, so um I just think that whole the whole reasoning behind that post was just to slow the fuck down. Because we're always go, go, go, we're running a business, and we're tired when we get home and we don't want to play or we don't want to do this, and just you know, even I I had a I had a life coach that said, you know, even if you took ten minutes just to call her with her or just to do whatever she wanted to do, ten minutes and make a deal with her and say, hey, okay, okay, like hey, let's have a long I've had a long day, but um we're gonna get ready for bed soon, but tell you what, I'll I'll call her with you for ten minutes. Well, is she gonna remember that what is she gonna remember more? Is that I came home every day and said I have a headache and I'm tired, or is she gonna come home or is she gonna remember that you know what, even though dad was tired every day, he always made a little bit of time for me. And that's after after after work, right? After I've had a long day or after I leave here or whatever, like um, you know, and I felt horrible last night. Just a quick example is she wants I have to download this new fishing game on my um phone. Well, at night time I usually spend about an hour stretching and mobility stuff, and I go downstairs and drink some tea and just kind of just decompress and spend some time by myself because that's I think that's very important for men, especially like just take some time and just process the day or just uh be present, you know what I mean, in in being alone. Well, uh she had told my wife, she said, Hey, I'm just gonna take a little bit of a nap. It was 10 o'clock at night, dude. It's she's just cranky, it's time for go to go to bed anyway. But I n I knew she was waiting for me. And it wasn't like necessarily that I didn't want to go upstairs and play with her to play this video game, but also I wanted some time by myself. And you know, she had told my wife that I'm just gonna take a little bit of nap. I'm just gonna take a small nap while I wait for dad to come play the game. Well, I went upstairs and she's already sleeping. I just felt really you know what I mean? Like I just felt bad and um that but also I feel like I shouldn't have felt bad, but like she's just like I just could have taken ten minutes just to just to hang out with her and play the game that she wanted to play, right? So um but yeah, dude, just going back to just taking the time just to slow down a little bit, yeah. You know, touch your feet on the grass, smell the air, smell some roses. I mean, yeah, you know, just shit like that.

SPEAKER_02: 32:32

So I wanna maybe implement kind of a challenge for people who are listening. Um and this is just coming from kind of this experience. So, you know, my son was in the musical, right? It was a high school musical, uh, you know, getting an opportunity, and it was really crazy because I had no idea the schedule that a show choir parent goes through or a kid in a musical uh the practice. And so these kids, some of these kids, they were going to school, they were in ROTC honors classes, uh, some of them were getting ready to take some some large psychology test um as well that they have to have so many hours for. And then they were doing the play and choir and talent show and graduation all at the same time. And I was like, damn, I don't remember high school being like that.

SPEAKER_01: 33:25

Yeah, bro, it's a shit ton of stimulation just all the time.

SPEAKER_02: 33:28

Yeah, it's crazy. Um, and so when my son got into this, I was like, okay, you know, I'll I'll get him in their practice and you know, everything he's done golfing, boxing, football, I've never missed a practice, right? And that's a blessing in itself to be able to say that. But I thought, oh, I'll be able to just drop him off to school and I'll come back and I'll work for a couple of hours and come back. And my wife's like, no, she goes, he's too young. I don't think that you can leave him there. And I think it would have been fine, but I think really she was like, Don't break your streak. And so almost three and a half, four months, we went every single day, Monday through Friday. Uh we had a couple of Saturdays, I think. And so I'm working through phone, lost a lot of production, right, uh, in my business. But I look back on it, and dude, there's certain days when I'm just like, dang, to be able to watch this show go from nothing, these kids didn't know the lines, they didn't know how to dance, they didn't know anything about the show, to opening night. And again, it was like a pre-show they had for all the high school kids. And I remember like crying in the crowd, like watching all the punchlines, watching the kids like deliver the hear the crowd reactions, and then opening night, you know, to then them getting nominated to go to the basically it's like the Tony Awards for high school kids and being able to perform on a stage at the Ellie Copkins opera theater.

SPEAKER_04: 34:55

Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_02: 34:55

You know, it's like a s a thing that some kids in their lifetime will never be able to see that. And my son at 10 years old was able to do that, right? But I look back and I'm like, when am I gonna miss the production that I missed out on? Like, it doesn't matter, but that memory is there. Yeah, and so I thought that was like as I look back on it, my wife's like, I'm jealous that you were in position to be able to go to all of those. She goes, Because I had to work. And when I think back and I'm like, dang, this is exactly why I started this in the first place, is to be able to have that. So anyway, that all that being to say is that um I kind of have put this challenge together, and I was thinking about this before we even came, and I didn't know if I was gonna talk about it or not. But I think that especially for parents, fathers out there, and if you have to start with something small, three days, five days, um, that's fine. But my challenge is basically say yes to your kids, right? For 30 days, 10 days, whatever you can. And it's just basically if they come and ask you something, hey dad, you want to come play this? Hey dad, can I show you something? Hey, do you you know, do you want to check out this new character on this new game? Even if you don't want to, just say yes and watch what happens. And you're gonna see that you're almost have like a whole different kid because the confidence that they have because they know they're gonna come to you and you're gonna say yes. Even if you can't mentally check in and still be there, just by saying yes, you're gonna see a whole different reaction. Yeah, and you're gonna see a whole different kid.

SPEAKER_01: 36:29

Golly. I mean, to like I can think about some of the questions my kid's gonna ask me and I'm gonna say yes to, but like be reasonable about it, right? Yeah, of course. You can't paint the walls, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but that's game. I definitely get that for sure. That's a great challenge, and that's that's gonna be that's hard, bro. Yeah. That's really hard to do. Because I know you do that for didn't don't you do that for oh no, that's my buddy Tim. He has a yes day for his kids' birthdays.

SPEAKER_02: 36:59

Yeah, that's that's that's tough. I guess.

SPEAKER_01: 37:01

Yeah, for sure. Um but that's interesting, dude. That is a very um that is a great challenge. I I would love to see.

SPEAKER_02: 37:09

Yeah, so Justin, again, I've only been doing it for about two weeks. But my son will say, Hey dad, can we uh can we hang out in the Marvel room tonight, right? So we have a whole room dedicated to action figures, right? You know, buys, sells, flips, collects, whatever. And so even if I'm don't want to, I'm like, yes, and I drag myself in there, right? And sometimes I'm just sitting there and he's just talking, and I said, Yeah, like that's a great idea. But I'm like mentally drained and I'm just sitting there, right? And then he's like, Dad, are you tired? And I said, Yeah, a little bit, but you know, uh we still got a couple minutes or whatever, and and again, with school starting now, I have a little bit of a excuse to be like, Hey, we gotta get to get to bed, buddy. Um, but like today, last night we had some friends over, you know, my birthday, uh, we did a dinner, and then we had uh some friends from out of town that were in town, and so we were playing uh this card game called Swoop. And so we always kind of play that. We play Parcheesy, and my son was like, Can we play Uno? And we're like, Yeah, we're playing Uno, so it's like 10 o'clock, uh nine, it's 9.30, you know, normally he's in bed, and he's like, Hey, we didn't get a chance to play Uno, and I said, Pull out the cards, we're playing right now. And the round went, you know, it's way past his bedtime, it's like 10.15, and we're still playing the game. And rather than just cutting it off, I just let's just finish the game, right? So, you know, like letting him win, or I'm giving him stuff and I'm intentionally trying to like take all the cards or whatever. But for him to go to bed, and then today we went to Target, and he was like, Oh, look, here's the new new Uno game. Can we buy this? And in my mind, I'm like, I don't want to buy this new Uno game. I didn't like the one that we played last night. I was like, but yes. And he's like, Can we play it tonight? And I was like, we'll see, but if it's not tonight, this weekend. And so right now he's playing this new Uno game, and he's so excited to have everybody play it because our f uh friends from out of town are still there, so they're all playing it right now. And he's like, Do you really have to go do this podcast? And I said, Yes. I was like, but I will play with you when I get back, right? And so I don't care to play this Uno game, right? But I care about me committing to basically saying yes, because I know that when I get home, he's gonna be so excited to be able to do that. You know, and somebody had posted this the other day, it said, you know, we think that we have 18 summers with our kids. He said, but the reality of it is that we maybe have 13, 14 because they at that age where they get to the age where they don't really want to start spending time with us. And if that's the case, I only have like maybe three summers left. Yeah. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_01: 39:44

Yeah, it goes by fairly fast, man. Yeah. It's really hard to own a business and be a husband and be a present father and uh still work while we're tired and play while we're tired and be a father while we're tired and show up while we're tired and um but yeah, dude, it's hard, man. It's hard just to to live the life that we live, and I I I feel like that's why a lot of men need this outlet into just because they got we have so much shit going on all the time, dude. And it's like where can we go and feel like somebody else understands what we're going through? Correct. Right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 40:23

So yeah, I tell people all the time, and then this is not a knock on those that work a nine to five, right? I tell people all the time I wish I could just go be content working a nine to five and come home and just enjoy family time. Yeah. Right? Because it's hard to shut it off. It's hard to leave work at work, it's hard to leave you know family life at the um at home w and and go to work knowing that you have stuff that's happening, right? Um not that it's maybe any harder, but there's just so many more hats that you have to wear and deal with. You know what I mean? Um, but with that being said, I also wouldn't change anything for the world. I would go through all the pain points, all the struggles to be able to have and pick and choose to get to do things the way that I do.

SPEAKER_01: 41:06

Yeah, dude, and it's really owning a business is I always make a joke to my guys that I want to sell Lux and just have somebody else run it, and then I'll just work for you from nine to five. Yeah. But then also I wouldn't have the freedom to go do to be at practices, to, to, to leave early to go to um uh dance practice or volleyball, or like this past week has kind of been like a week from hell for me because my wife just had surgery, so she hasn't been able to drive. But then my 12-year-old starts school at 7:15, or I'm sorry, 745, and then I gotta go open the shop, and then I gotta come back home, which I live I'm live like 25 minutes from from from my shop out in Peyton, pick up my kid, my four-year-old, because she starts preschool at 1215. So I'm only at the shop for like three or four hours, and then I go back to the shop, or drop my drop my kid off of preschool, go back to the shop, and then my 12-year-old gets out at three, and then my preschooler gets out at 3 15. So I gotta run, I've been having to run back and forth. Um But if I worked in 9 to 5, there's no way my boss would be like, What the fuck are you doing, dude? What do you mean you gotta leave again? You've been here for two hours. Right, right. But then, you know, obviously like the freedom of owning a business, you know, has its curses and has its blessing. Yeah, it's we have a lot, we have to wear a lot of hats, and we have to worry about the money coming in. If we don't sell, who else is gonna sell for us? If we're not bringing businesses, is there anybody else bringing business in? And but like also like I have the freedom to pretty much go do whatever I want to do whenever I want to do it. And um But do you that's the question? I definitely wouldn't change. No, actually I do. I I feel like I really have transformed my business to where it doesn't necessarily it doesn't necessarily have have to have me there for it to run. Um and I'm really trying to take steps away from it to not have to be there at all. Um just because I I don't I don't know, I kind of want to go do something else, you know what I mean? Like I love cars, I love what I do, I love running a business, I love managing people, and um that was a big thing about opening my business is I just wanted to affect a group a s a group of special young men that just needed not to feel like there had a toxic environment, you know what I mean, a toxic workplace or where they feel like and all my guys, you know, I have a couple 1099 guys that um work at other different shops, but they always call Lux their home. Yeah, and that makes me feel really good that I built a business that can that makes people feel good enough to like sometimes sometimes my tinter Tim, and I'll I will have him on here eventually because um he's got um he's he's gone he's he's been through a lot of stuff too, and um but I can he'll come from other shops and he's just in a shitty mood, he's grouchy or whatever, and just after 15 minutes, no one can no one has to say anything. And just after 15 minutes, his spirits lift. And you know, it's really it's really gratifying to know that like I did that. Like I built that. That culture. I built that culture, I built that that camaraderie, I you know, that vibe that's in there. And um, and it took me a long time to get there, dude. I wasn't I wasn't always the best business owner. I would blow up and cuss and and uh fire people on the spot because of whatever, you know what I mean? And it really took me a lot of healing in within myself to understand like I don't have to be like that, you know what I mean? It doesn't have to be a toxic, and it wasn't a toxic environment, but I didn't necessarily have to react the way I reacted. Right. Right. So um sorry we kind of switched gears there, but no, that's okay.

SPEAKER_02: 44:58

Yeah, you know, it's important. So when you do take that R and R or that time for yourself, you know, what are some of the things that you're doing?

SPEAKER_01: 45:08

You know, I I think I've I think I mentioned this before, but I was a I was a yes man for a long time, people pleasing, um really focused on how other people looked at me rather than how I looked at myself. So um really to start healing from a lot of the things that I was going through, and I'll go over some symptoms here in a minute if if we have some time, but um just little things like just taking the time to go out to eat and sit by myself, right? And just not think about anything and just be there, you know, be and just live, right? Um getting massages, going to and um um taking the time to reflect and meditate and stretch at night time and just taking, you know, listen to some some music or some Alan Watts, some philosophy shit or whatever, or reading a book or taking the time just to sit in the dark with a cup of tea and just digress. Digress and just but like also just what I've learned is just to be there. Yeah, you know what I mean? Don't I I I didn't try and fix anything. I wasn't trying to process anything, I wasn't trying, I was just being, yeah, you know, and I think that's really important to anybody that's struggling with anxiety or depression, because what do most people do? They fight it. Why do I feel like this? How do I get out of it? How do what do I what can I do to fix it? Right. This sounds really like counterintuitive, but just embrace it. You know, and and but embrace it as the observer, not the and and try not to identify with it. And that that's something that I that's something that I focused on a lot was just trying to not identify myself with anything that was going on, but just to try and observe as the observer, right? Like, because that's what we are. We're just observing the emotions and the thoughts that are happening. We're not we're not those things, yeah. So um, but I mean, like, this sounds silly as a guy, probably, but like taking a bath, dude. Like, let me just take a bath, warm bath, let me throw some Epsom salts in there and just fucking chill out, you know what I mean? So um that's a low-key tactic for real. Yeah, for sure, dude. It is. I mean, just just taking a bath and just um breathing and just being present, dude, you know what I mean? And that really has helped me um heal. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 47:39

Before we get to these symptoms, yeah, I I want to put this out there. A lot of people when they're going through depression, they try to absorb it and own it almost as if it's a part of them. Yeah. But I tell people, treat it like a cold, treat it like a virus. Know that it's gonna come out of your system, but how long it stays in your system is based upon you. Right? But if you treat it almost that it's an illness that if you treat it correctly, it can go away. Right. And I'm not saying it, you know, that you can't get sick again, right? For sure. You know, people catch colds every year. But if you treat it as such and you think about it as such, then you know that it's temporary. Yeah. You know that you can overcome it. It takes maybe more work than a general cold. It takes more work because it's mental. But when you think of it that way, then it becomes a little easier to overcome.

SPEAKER_01: 48:32

Yeah, uh definitely, dude. I I it's very hard for people to because we're never taught that, right? We're never no one ever taught us that we're not our thinking. Uh those random thoughts that come in our head that are like horrific, right? Like we all have them. Um but most people identify with it because they think that most people think that their thoughts and their being and everything is the identity of who we are, right? This is just who I am, and this is just how I feel. This is the disease that I have. Um, you know, I don't want to get too crazy and I'm freak people out, but you know, I think that goes with anything, man, from from cancer to fibromyalgia to depression, anxiety. I mean, if it's the right with the right mentality, I mean the mind-body connection's crazy, dude. I mean, it can heal anything. Yes. And it can. Yeah. But what is what is what does everything tell us that we that we can't do? We can't heal. We have to remain sick, we have to continue to take in these drugs to make us feel better. Um, we have to do this, this, and this. We have to go to therapy, we gotta talk about it. Sure, all those things are important, sure. But what comes down to it is this. I mean, there's a reason why the placebo effect works. Yes. There's a reason why a sugar pill is better than the actual ingredient that's gonna make you supposed to feel better, but this one's gonna come along with a bunch of symptoms, and this one's just gonna make you feel better, even though you're just taking a sugar pill. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 50:00

Thinking of all those commercials, man.

SPEAKER_01: 50:01

Yeah, dude, the mind over matter is so crazy. But then, like, what do most commercials for drugs do is people playing and they're happy and and they're throwing the football outside and they're going down the water slide, and they make it seem like, oh, if I take this drug, it's gonna make me feel better. Well, sure, it's gonna make you feel better, but what happens when you stop taking that drug? You're right just back where you were.

SPEAKER_02: 50:25

Side effects may include nausea, heartburn, death. Yeah, they just throw death like in the suicide stuff, like it's nothing like, oh yeah, you know, by the way, some people experience this. Um yeah, it's really crazy um when we think about that. Um Aaron, I want to talk about this real quickly, and then we'll have Brandon kind of go through some of these symptoms that we talked about. Um you remember the first Joker movie that came out with Joaquin Phoenix a couple years ago?

SPEAKER_01: 50:57

Yeah, I did. Um great men's mental health movie, by the way. Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 51:02

I mean, and so this was something that Aaron and I had talked about, and I was like, I feel like that this was better than the Heath Ledger Joker. And I said that not in terms of like him playing the Joker better, I just thought that so many more people resonated.

SPEAKER_01: 51:18

Yeah, it was more realistic of an actual men's how men's thinking works.

SPEAKER_02: 51:23

And I remember Aaron replying to me saying, Isn't it sad though? Yeah. That that's why he was such a good joker, is because so many people resonated with it. Do you remember that conversation? And it kind of took me back by surprise because I was like, dang, why? Like, why do we have to resonate to be a villain to feel like that we're understood? And that part was like the part that really hurt me, I think, as a guy, to realize that we don't embrace the people that are willing to teach us. Nobody teaches us to be great. People only teach us how to recover from failure, people only teach us how to bounce back, right? How to be maybe resilient when you're going through some shit. But nobody actually teaches you what it's like to actually go through and be great from the very beginning or to take that feeling and realize that you can sustain that. Right. And to me, that blew my mind with everything is like, so when you asked me to do this, I'm like, absolutely, because we need to change that and shift that, you know, for especially for our kids, but business owners, right? You have a social responsibility to take care of your employees. And whether it's temporary that they're gonna be there, whether they're gonna be there for a long time, I tell my team, however long I have you, my goal is to help shape you for whatever comes next, right? You may be a business owner someday, you may use this skill set for something else. You you you could go off and and be go home and be the greatest a stay-at-home mom, right? Whatever it is. But my goal is that for when I have you, is to prepare you for success for whatever may come next. And because of that, I think that it changes the culture, like you said, it it introduces people. Never thought in a million years that somebody would ever say, Man, I love the way your brain works. Like, I grew up hating my brain forever. And for somebody to say that's so crazy, you know what I mean? So, anyway, um, just as we're talking about that, these are some of the things that just kind of pop into my head, man.

SPEAKER_01: 53:26

So yeah, I mean, what is that that that saying in the in the Batman that you either die a hero or you or you live long enough to become to see yourself become the villain? I mean, I think that goes for a lot of people, dude, like and like men especially. We we grow up and we're really, really good people, and we got our hearts broken, we get dis we get uh people get disappointed by the by the actions that we do mistakenly or on purpose or whatever. Um we don't necessarily live up to the ex expectations of other people. And um, you know, we get for me, man, it was really I got my heart broke a lot. You know, I wore my s I wore my heart on my sleeve, and especially with women, dude, I I was very um I was very emotional when it came to like getting my heart broken. Because I just I gave it my all, and then when they didn't want it or they cheated on me, or or I mean you know the heartbreak, bro. That shit fucking sucks, dude. And it's like someone died, yeah. Right? But then like I I suffered, I I didn't suffer, but I uh I experienced death at a really young age. Um the first the first person I ever lost was that was like I really really remember was um was in fourth grade and I lost my lost my friend JJ to a house fire that um supposedly was set on fire by his family by his parents to get insurance money. Yeah. Um and that was and then found his sound found his sisters in the hallway and uh just like just shit like that, dude, that like really just broke me as a kid. But like super super good person, and then fucking one day, dude. I just was like, why do I feel so hard? Like I just feel like I'm like I'm creating this shell over me, right? Like this wall. Yeah, and I saw myself become the villain, like that because that's like going back to women, like what I was always like the nice guy. I was always too nice, and I was always, oh, you're just friend personality or whatever. And I was like, well, fuck, dude. Like the door that's what I was supposed to do. I thought like that, that's what I thought girls liked. Yeah, the door. They like the bad boy, they like the guy that doesn't text back right away, and I was always the guy, like, I gotta text back right away. Yeah, and my 12-year-old's like that, and I'm like, dude, you you gotta stop that because it's gonna lead into something else. But you know, it's just like I saw myself become this hardened version of me and this egotist, this egotistical guy that was like, okay, I got a handle on it now because then I just started getting them, dude. You know what I mean? Like I was like taking girls home, and I was like able to um I was able to to create more relationships that way because of how I acted. I wasn't it's like this whole new identity transformed of the from from the kid that I was raised to be, right? Like respectful to women and and I still was, I wasn't like not respectful to women, but I also like knew how to play the game better, right? Like and I created this ego within myself that eventually I think the universe or God, however, how whatever however you want to look at it, was like, nah, dude, like this is not who we are, this is not who I think you're supposed to become. I'm gonna give you an ego death, and you're gonna suffer for a lot of years, and then you're gonna come out the other end, the person that you were always meant to be. Right. And um, so yeah, dude, I saw myself be the hero, become the villain, and then kind of back to the hero again. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 56:57

Well, I I think it's important to realize too, sometimes you have to go from one side to the other to understand, right? But you also then it's kind of like that yin-yang thing where you truly understand where you sit in who you are. 100%. Um, because like I look at I yeah, I study I try to apply and and learn something from everything, but I can only imagine having to take on that role and play that villain for so long. Like I watched Floyd Mayweather, arguably the best defensive boxer of all time, right? A lot of people hate the way he boxes. I hate watching him box, it's so boring, right? But man, how many times has he actually been hit in his career? Yeah, for sure. Right? And but he embraced that, right? He embraced to be able to play that villain, you know. Even the Las Vegas residents, one guy was like, I hate that guy. And I was like, what happened? He was like, he's like, I almost got fired because I was trying to pick up a client. He's like, and he went and stopped traffic. He literally went to the four-way um, like a f uh a light, had his limousine block off all four sections, and just was just dancing on top of his car for like 45 minutes. He said the police couldn't get it.

SPEAKER_01: 58:18

Floyd Mayweather was?

SPEAKER_02: 58:19

Yeah, in Las Vegas.

SPEAKER_01: 58:20

That's more strange.

SPEAKER_02: 58:22

Because he had the money, because he could, you know. And um, you know, so but I look at that and I'm like, what kind of toll does that take on him, you know? But you also notice then like later on, he stopped being the bad guy because he couldn't do it anymore. Yeah, he basically he stopped caring also, yeah. And it was just like I'm just gonna do me, and if you like me, you you you know, and there's so there's like a whole identity thing got that goes through it. And it's a weird process because we have to figure this out, but we also go through this path to figure out like, am I good? Am I bad? Um, do I enjoy doing the bad things? Right? Do I enjoy being a good person? Like, you know, because that's a lot of work too, trying to upkeep that, you know. I I was once told that that people who are the most positive all the time have the biggest downfalls, and then I experienced that, right? So it's a weird aspect, but there's you almost have to go through a lot of that to figure out who you are, right? And battling and figuring out and uncovering yourself, the real version of you, is not easy. It's like the hardest shit that I've ever had to go through. Yeah. But it is the most rewarding because now I know where I never want to go back to.

SPEAKER_01: 59:35

Yeah, for sure. And it's it it takes a lot of work that most people aren't willing to put in.

SPEAKER_02: 59:41

Right. Right. So it's uh you have to kill the pride and ego.

SPEAKER_01: 59:45

You have to, bro.

SPEAKER_02: 59:46

And as a male, that is so hard.

SPEAKER_01: 59:48

Yeah, it is. And it's painful. Yes. Um, you know, there's a lot of suffering that comes involved with that. And uh, you know, I'll jump I'll jump into some of these symptoms that I had before and um you know. When I went down with this ego death or nervous breakdown or whatever, I think it's I think it was something called the dark night of the soul at the end of the day. And it was essentially an ego death, something that was stripping away everything that I thought I was, everything that I learned who I was, and anything that as a child was was traumatizing or or um uh anything that I identified myself with before the age of 25 was just like literally in one day stripped. Like I was no longer that person and I became this really like fearful, I'll cower down and like in the fetal position type guy. Like I was terrified of everything. Um there was a and I touched on this before, but you know, when we were in that restaurant, I had I was having panic attacks long before that. And when we were in this restaurant and I had that that last panic attack that just never went away, basically my brand my brain just broke. And I didn't know why. I didn't know what happened. I just know that I just did not I no longer felt like myself. And I looked in the mirror and I just remember thinking, like, what the fuck just happened and why is it happening to me? And um, you know, along with the panic attacks and then like going to bed thinking that like the next day, like, okay, it's just gonna go away the next day. And when it didn't, and I woke up day after day after day after day, and it just didn't go away, and it just kept it just kept getting worse and worse and worse. Uh for two years, dude. I just every day I thought I was dying, but it came along with a lot of symptoms, and I know that like especially like TikTok, I have a lot of like anxiety recover people and people that went through what I went through, but when I was 25, there wasn't there wasn't I mean there might have been a TikTok almost 10, 12 years or eight years ago, but there wasn't it was just all like it was like vine shit, right? It wasn't people trying to heal other people, it wasn't people trying to I think it was bite dance, right?

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:18

And then I remember the videos it was like somebody would walk on and then they would start dancing with the rain and stuff like that. That's what TikTok used to be. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:26

It just was never like, and there was nothing about like what I was going through. Like every doctor, I did every test out there. I got card, I got um EKGs done, I was in the emergency room multiple times, um and blood tests multiple times, and they can always they would always um come back normal. But dude, I was like treating my body like shit. I was I was uh working multiple hours a day, you know, 18, 20 hours a day, getting very little sleep, smoking cigarettes, um, you know, a pack a day, um, drinking booze and all that stuff, dude. I was just trying to not necessarily mask what I was feeling, that's just the lifestyle that I was living, right? I worked at a bar during at nighttime. Right. And well, what do you do when you get off work? You go out with your friends and your employees and you go drink. Right. And um, you know, um maybe some other recreational drugs here and there to keep me up, you know. So, but um, you know, some of the symptoms I went through that I feel like a lot of people have and they don't know it's anxiety, um, was like uh depersonalization, derealization. Basically, feel like you're watching yourself live life or like you're in a dream, right? Um, that was one that I felt. Uh daily headaches, um muscle tension. Like even now, like seven years later, I definitely feel a lot better than I do, I do now than I did, and it's taken a lot of work to get here. But um, I really like what does your body do when it's in fight or flight? It it rounds your shoulders, it rounds your back, it puts you in this fetal position to kind of protect your vital organs, right? And so like now I have like um trigger points all throughout my body that I have to constantly work out, and I still think it's like a mind-body connection thing that I'm working out. But my back always hurt, like my back tightened up, like all my core muscles tightened up and lengthened and got weakened because my body just thought it was trying to protect me, right? Um racing thoughts. Um, there was one day, dude, I was super like, I don't know what happened. I went, I went from like extreme panic and anxiety to one day like super, super depressed, bawling. I remember sitting at my mom's table and I was just fucking just bawling my eyes out, like lost it, dude. I don't know why. I was questioning everything in my life, was questioning my relationship and and and my job and my life in general, and just and now I feel like maybe that was my my hormones trying to balance themselves, and they couldn't, like my fight or flight response versus my parasymp parasympathetic response was off, and it was like trying to you know do these things, but like heart palpitations. I remember one day, dude, I was f I freaked the fuck out because I ate like some spicy green chili and then I went and smoked a cigarette, and then like every 30 seconds my heart would skip a beat and I would feel this big thump in my chest. Oh jeez. So I'm sitting on my couch and like my eyes just feel like I just did like like I'm like I'm rolling balls, right? Like I just took a bunch of molly and I didn't. I just felt like my serotonin was just like out the roof. Um my pupils were really big, um heart like pounding, but then like every 30 seconds it would just stop. And I would like, yeah, and like still even today, dude, like I'll catch myself like trying to like pretend like I'm just resting my hand and I'm like really trying to feel my heartbeat because that's something like I created in my mind, dude. That's something's wrong with my heart. Right. And um, you know, the humming in my body, that's something I that I kind of still deal with. It's like feels like my whole body's kind of vibrating. Um, but I remember one time, dude. I was having a I was having like this weird, like I just didn't feel good. And I went and like looked in my mirror and to try and like splash some cold water on my face, and my pupils were huge. It's like I just did a bunch of drugs, right? And I I just like what the fuck? Right. Um and then what are some other things that I had, like sweaty palms, like there was times where I felt really like you mentioned being really cold earlier, but like there was times where I feel really, really cold. So I'd go and take a hot shower, and then I'd feel really, really hot. Um, and then uh like I would have these brain zaps, like I would feel like like something shocked me in my head. Yeah. I had those for a while, and I thought I was like gonna have I was gonna start like I convinced myself that I was gonna start having seizures, and I I never had one, but like what a crazy thought. Like my mind would feel so stimulated that I felt like it was gonna like explode and go into like a seizure like episode. Right. Um muscle tension I already said.

SPEAKER_02: 1:07:20

Um did you ever like for me? I never had like an onslaught of things where I felt like it was coming, it just kind of crept up on me. You know, nothing was ever kind of like a telltale sign, but it just kept piling up. And I remember one day my wife was like rubbing my back a little bit, and I was like, that hurts. And she's like, I'm barely touching you, and I'm like, No, it feels like you're like smacking me in the back, like you know, or or or or you know, like doing this with your knuckles, like going down and pressing as hard as you can. And she was like, She's like, You have something seriously wrong because she was it shouldn't have hurt like this. And um, you know, it was all the cortisol buildup.

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:59

Oh yeah, dude, cortisol, adrenaline, I mean, all that stuff plays in a part when you're when your body is in fight or flight response. And um, you know, I don't know if there was definitely some, you know, for me it would be like I would have symptoms for months and then they would go away and they would jump to another part of my body.

SPEAKER_03: 1:08:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:18

And then like like one, like my side would hurt really bad for like you know, a month or so. I'd go get it checked out by the doctor. I got EKG and and I can't imagine how much fucking radiation I fucking sent through my body trying to figure out what was wrong with me when there was nothing wrong with me. And it was just it was just the fight or flight response in my body. Yeah, and but then my side would hurt, so I felt like I would have like I convinced myself that I had stomach cancer, right? And then my shoulder would hurt, and then I would feel like I had some type of like degenerative, dude. I would come up with so much shit, and there was no like chat GPT back then. WebMD didn't get it. Dude, WebMD, Google, I was always on Google, and my wife was like, dude, you gotta stop searching your symptoms. Yeah. But the way my brain was because what happens when something goes wrong? Your brain tries to figure out why it's happening so it can fix it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:12

Yeah, finding logic, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:13

Finding logic, and it just was and so I would convince myself that I had a different disease every day. So I created this like hypochondriac health anxiety thing based off of everything that I was feeling, right? And I just um man, I just I think back now and I'm like, how did I like how did I live through that? Right, you know, how did I and really at the end of the day, what I think was happening, man, was it was just God just stripping everything from me, but there was no way that I was gonna move unless I was moved. Right, right, right, like basically I just felt like God just picked me up and like threw me in this torment for me to come out the other side more empathetic, more compassionate, more understanding of why people are the way that they are, that usually how they treat me, if it's bad, usually has little to or nothing to do with me, right? Right? Everything to do with their trauma and their life experience. And um man, people sure do make it hard to love them sometimes, but I really do try my best just to fucking love everybody, right? And that's not something I ever would have said 10 years ago. Right. Um, you know, if you ever treated me badly and I cut you off, that's it, bro. Like you were like, I'm done. And now I feel like I'm a little bit more like compassionate, I'm a little bit more gentle with my kids, a little bit more gentle with my wife. And um, you know, just looking back at all everything that I felt and some of the stuff that I still I still have like I still have muscle tension that I'm working out, and I'm still um have um daily headaches and things like that that I'm working out, but now I just know that it's anxiety and I try not to identify with it, and that's that's really hard to do. That's really hard to like have a symptom in your in your body, think that it's killing you, and then try not to identify with it. Like, that's a lot harder than it than it seems. But um, you know, I I if you ever get a chance, there's two books you should read. The Body Keep Score. Yeah, we talked about that one. Okay. I've I've never read it like entirely, but I've read glimpses and I'm like, oh, that makes sense. And then the power of now. The power of now really talks about like really separating yourself from being being like everything that you feel and think to just being the observer of everything because that's all we are. What is our body? We're just a vessel, right? Of a soul that's living. And that soul is the observer, and we're just you know, our our bodies are just these things that are that are um containing this energy of our soul to just live, right? I mean, um, you know, people always ask, like, well, what's what's what's your purpose of living? Well, to me, I think it's just to live. Like, I don't think we're you know, I don't think it goes back to Alan Watts, you know, big philosopher, even Bruce Lee, if you know you're into that, but um just really just dialing in and just understanding that we're not necessarily here for like well, what's your life's purpose, you know, like well, to to love and to just live and just be and just be a light in the world. You know, like oh, I think my purpose in the world is to become the president of the United States. I mean, that's all great and dandy, but that's just an identity that you've created that is outside of anything outside of like loving and being love and being a light in this world is just it's part of the yin and yang that you just mentioned, right? It's like we have to have the black to have the white, we have to have the anger to have the happy and the joy, because otherwise we wouldn't know how to experience anything, right? Right? We have to have the heaven to have the hell, yeah, right. And I think that's something that you know when it says create heaven on earth, I think that's really something that we do up here mentally, because we can live in hell while we're here, and you and I both did.

SPEAKER_02: 1:13:20

Yeah, I was gonna say I've done that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:13:22

And then now we're on the other side and we've created we've basically created this this heaven per se, right? Or at least we're trying to, we're trying to get there. Um, but um yeah, dude. I mean, those are some of the symptoms I had. I mean, I can go down it, but if you know anyone out there has had anything that I've had and they're like wondering what's wrong, and they've gone to any doctor, and they'd like, you know, they've all their blood tests have come back normal and all their tests have come back normal. And I even got down to like everything would come back normal, and then I'd be cool for a couple hours, and then I'd be laying in bed and be like, nope, they fucking missed something. Something is being missed on my charts that this doctor is not seeing. And I've been there so many times that they are, dude, I would go sit, I would go sit in the parking lot of the emergency room just in case. Um, there was times where like I wouldn't want to go anywhere, but like we would have family gatherings, like my wife's sister would have stuff, or we'd go to mom's dinner uh uh uh uh for uh Christmas or Thanksgiving or whatever, and I wanted to do nothing but stay home, but I didn't want to be home alone just in case something happened and no one was there to save me. But then when I went to these family functions, I couldn't be present because I was so internal, and what really what I think was happening was it was forcing me to isolate myself so I can shed something to become something else.

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:51

And you know what's crazy, and this is not something that a lot of people would think about all of that was really teaching you skill sets of what you can now do on the business world. And not many people would think that going through all of that experience they to them they think that it's illness, it's it's weakness. But the reality of it is that all of that taught you all the skills that we you use today in your business. And so it was actually the greatest blessing that you could have ever experienced.

SPEAKER_01: 1:15:27

Yeah, totally. I told my wife the other day, I said, you know, I about going back thinking how everything, everything that I went through, that was definitely the worst thing that has ever happened to me. And I don't know if I had a magic wand and if I can go back to seven years if I would change it. And I say that because that shit was fucking hard to get through, dude. And I feel like a lot of people have gone through that and didn't make it. Correct. And that is such a big thing with suicide for me, is that I decided not to do that. And I decided to I decided to play it out and wait until tomorrow or next week. And in this case it was seven years, and it was a fucking hard thing to get through. And I got through it and I made it, and I'm so much better, and life is so much more beautiful on the other side. And um I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02: 1:16:34

This isn't this is why we did this. This is why we decided to do this, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:38

You know, it's um it made me so much more like it made me realize how much how strong I am because of how resilient I was and how resilient it made me, and it made me it made me become such a better man on the other side that I just think that's what just most people don't understand, man, is I did the research, I did the work, I I I was still able to own a business, I was still able to be a father, I was still able to be a husband. And it was hard to do all those things, but but uh now that I feel better and I feel better mentally, physically, spiritually, I grew in all those things. And I I just look at life now, dude, like it like I get to just live life the rest of my life now. Yes, you know what I mean? Yeah, and then like maintaining that, because it would just be so much e it would be easy to go back to an old me, but then like I'm sure you think about this too. I never want to go back, I never ever want to feel the way that I felt ever again.

SPEAKER_02: 1:17:48

Yes. I describe it as basically like somebody who's never known that they're blind, right? Like maybe partially blind, maybe their vision is off. And then you give them that 2020 vision, you put glasses on and you give them context, and they're like, Whoa, I haven't seen this clearly ever. I haven't seen I haven't been able to read people's faces or see their eye colors or see across the room, right? And I feel like that that when you come out on the other side, that's what life feels like. And now because you can see everything, you're so much more aware, you're so much more alert, like a higher version of yourself, right? But then you also like you all you want everyone to feel that. And so you you know, you try, you try to implore and help people to get there. Unfortunately, it's just not everybody's ready, at least not at this time. So you just hope that the wisdom that you impart in them, like I said, sometimes it's hard to love people, and for me, I find it's hard to love people who are stuck and stay stuck. And you know, may it's not I hope it's not gonna be like that forever. I hope that they come out through it, and you can only do so much, but it that's the hardest thing is to watch people who just constantly, you know, um put themselves in similar or worse situations, or people, you know, and that part is the part that that's what brings me down, and so I have to kind of like step away from from that, you know. I I I can help you and I can have a conversation with you, but there's a certain cutoff point where like I can't watch you go through that because that breaks my heart.

SPEAKER_01: 1:19:14

Yeah, for sure. And it doesn't just break your heart, dude. You kind of, at least for me, like I have a really hard time being so empathetic that I bring on other people's energies. And um, you know, some people think that's like witchcraft or whatever, but everything is energy, and all that is is just energy getting swapped from me and you. That's why, like, you know, I think we vibe so well because we have a really we're we're vibrating at uh at a um certain frequency that is similar, yeah. Right? Yeah, so then like when people, dude, are just like even like social media isn't making anybody, but there's all like someone could post the most beautiful post in the world, and there's always that percent of people that are just fucking just destroying it, right? Right, like their lives are so miserable and they're stuck and they stay stuck and they they just think that's who they are, right? And it just like, dude, like I don't know, man. Like it could be like I've seen posts about people kids with cancer, and there's some guy talking shit. Like it's like, dude, like is your life that yeah, like what happened to you? Who hurt you? What like you know, and like like how do you how do we make it how do we make men's mental health make men understand that it's like that's not how we're supposed to be living, and how do we fix it?

SPEAKER_02: 1:20:48

Well, I guess that's the question we're gonna try to figure out and and you know, with the guests that we have planned on coming on and all those things, you know. So um man, there's so many different topics that I know we're gonna have just coming in from this, you know, whether it's the resiliency, you know, um the grit, you know. But I think the biggest thing that you just people just have to know, and that why we're doing this is be we want guys specifically to know that you're not on an island. You know, you're not unique for staying in your ego, you're not you know, one of a kind for dealing with this. In fact, you know, as hard as it is, um killing your ego as as hard as that may be, is it worth losing your family over? Is it worth losing friendships, you know? Um, and I think that those are the topics that we're gonna get really gritty about and talk about because people aren't talking about those things, right? Um, like I said, it's not gonna be easy. But I think that these are the things that we need to start normalizing and having conversations and and talking about it because um again, it doesn't make you stand out in a crowd of people to be able to basically hold that, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 1:22:06

Yeah, dude, you know, it's just reminds me of I we went to the zoo a little while ago, and I found there was this guy that we saw, he was pushing his two girls, and his wife and his wife was walking behind him, and we saw him multiple times, and every time we saw him, he was yelling at his kids. You know, like four or six years old, maybe. Yeah, and just like shut the fuck down, like yeah, like every time. And I we saw him like seven or eight times, and every time he was just yelling at his kids, and all they were doing were just like being kids, being kids, man. Like, and I'm not saying that I'm not guilty of that because I definitely am, but like just to me, like that was a little excessive, and like seeing that was like, man, someone someone hurt you, or you saw something that hurt you so bad that you haven't dealt with, and that's just energy escaping you, and that you know, your kids are an easy target, and he may not even be aware of that, you know. And but how do we you know, how do we make people more aware of that? What is something that people can do that is they don't they don't um what am I I don't the words I'm trying to say are coming out, but you know, how instead of instead of just reacting all the time, how do we like as men, how do we process stuff and just understand that that's something we gotta work through and that's something we gotta heal?

SPEAKER_02: 1:23:32

I think it starts just like this dialoguing it out, so um man, like I said, it's therapeutic, sometimes a little bit heavy, but I'm I'm uh I appreciate you being able to be honest, right, about everything. That's why I love doing this and why it was uh an easy yes for us to commit to this, I think, on both sides. Um so I want to remind you guys if you're listening to this, um if you're a parent, I want we want to hear about your accepting of maybe the challenge that we offered, right? Saying yes, and again, make it reasonable. And you know, if the kid says, Oh, I want to go out for like you know, ice cream at midnight or something like that, maybe a little bit unreasonable, or or if the kid just wants to go in and spend a bunch of money or whatever, but you know, find something that is easy to commit to, right? And just kind of watch, maybe document what happens. Um I Aaron, I know we've talked about how one of the things for you has always kind of been and why you're on this project is because you said sometimes it was hard to listen and not be able to get a chance to respond. So is there anything that came through in today's episode that you wanted to maybe chime in on?

SPEAKER_00: 1:24:42

Yeah, um, so actually there was a couple of things, funny enough, is I kind of actually want to go back and just touch base on some of the things that you guys talked about. Um when you were talking about relationships, right? And like spousal relationships, things like that. It doesn't need to be like spousal necessarily. But uh oh, hold on. Alright, I think we're good now. I was like, my mic's not working for some reason. Like, and I'm wearing headphones. I'm like, how is this a problem? And that camera shut off. It sure did. Things are going great. Um anyways, so going back to that, I I had a thought process and I was gonna put it this way. I think men have an obvious tendency to be problem solvers. And what can happen is your wife then begins to treat you like a problem solver and no longer like a partner, right? Because you were talking about how why those relationships start and they kind of maneuver to this, I'm being told what to do, being told what to do, right? You kind of pigeonholed yourself into being that kind of individual in that relationship, and you don't understand why, right? You don't get that perspective.

SPEAKER_02: 1:25:50

That goes to that communication piece that we talked about, right? If you talked about to just say, hey, can you solve some of my problems sometimes, right? Yep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:25:57

And if men don't understand when they need to be a problem solver and when they need to be a listener, that's gonna end up causing animosity.

SPEAKER_05: 1:26:06

Oof.

SPEAKER_00: 1:26:06

And then that animosity is gonna end up being the difference between having arguments and having dialogue. I think that's where those some of those things are coming from, you know, down the road. Um and then when you guys are talking about children, I said this to one of my uh cousins one time, and I just saw a click, and because I saw it click in his mind, I'm like, I better remember that because I was telling them, right? And I told him, I said, children are not learning how to talk, they're learning how to communicate. And that is so much more important when you really understand you're you're teaching them how they should be talking to you, how they're how they're how they're supposed to be communicating with you, right? Because Gabo Romate said, and he's a um he's a child psychologist, he said there's no such thing as an anxious child, there's only anxious parents, right? Because what they're doing is they're just they're they're just doing what you're doing, right? So so when you're seeing all um all those things, like for example, that father at the zoo, right? That guy is just riddled with anxiety. Everything that that those kids are doing is a reflection of how he's feeling, and everything that those kids are doing is a reflection of that. It it becomes just this feedback loop, yes, right? Yeah, he yells at them, they do this, they act up more, he yells at them more, and then you just see this, you know, in in perpetuity. Yeah, it's the loop. It's just chaos, man. It's just chaos. And um and you guys had a pretty deep, you know, question right there at the end. And I was just gonna say, I think that the value of the world is in direct relationship to the perspective of the value of yourself. So when people get on there and they drop these nasty comms and say these hurtful, that's the perspective of themselves, right? So you don't need to sit there and ask and wonder why or how this person is. You already know that you already know that person's perspective of themselves based on how they're responding to the world. Because they think everything is in correlation, because most people will value themselves more than others. And if that's already how poorly that they reflect on themselves, that shows a pretty negative perspective of the world. So those are all my notes for the show. Yeah, I gotta figure out what happened to that camera.

SPEAKER_01: 1:28:15

Yeah, all good. Yeah, that's awesome, man. You know, as far as going back to having, you know, that's I guess that's one thing I was trying to say was you know, how do we or how do how does anybody try and fix the perspective of what of themselves if they don't know how? You know what I mean? Like what like obviously it starts with this, but like also like check on your homies, dude. Like like have like spend time to listen and and really take the time to understand why they're feeling the way that they're feeling, but like things that happen to me and you feel like I was spiritually awakened, right? And I don't mean like religious stuff, I mean more like something inside of me now understands that I have to be one of the people, a light worker, right? Like I have to be one of the people that that meets somebody because you know now, yeah. I meet somebody that's going through something, and they are an angry person or a depressed person or an angry person, right? And I have to walk with them through it because I've been through it. Yeah, right. But like there aren't I feel like there's a lot of us in the world, but like also who's doing the work. Yes, you know what I mean. We get so caught up in our regular lives and our jobs and our marriages and everything else, and I'm not saying that this is more important than those things, but it's just as important, right? Right? That we need to continue to make sure that we are taking the time to be like, hey man, like I've been through this because that's not something that I had. I didn't have anybody to be like, hey man, this is what you're going through, there's nothing that I can. Say or do that's gonna help you right now, but I promise you, you're gonna come on the other side of this, right? And if you take that as if you take all of this as a lesson rather than a punishment, right? You're gonna see the world a lot brighter on the other side, and you're gonna hear colors, and you're gonna wanna hug trees and put your feet on the ground to ground yourself and drink tea and go to bed early and wake up early and meditate, and you're gonna do all these things, they're gonna help help you heal, but then you gotta continue to do those things to maintain your healing so you can go out and do exactly what I did for you.

SPEAKER_02: 1:30:35

Yeah, because you're gonna you're gonna nourish your body, your soul, yeah, right? All of those things instead of just um nourishing that sentiment, right? The that darkness or whatever it is that you're going through. And like I said, you know, treat it like an illness. Find what you need to do to treat those symptoms. For sure. So yeah. Thank you. Appreciate you.

SPEAKER_01: 1:30:56

Yeah, man, absolutely thank you. I think that's it. I think probably the next episode. I know we promised you that we're gonna be recording next time or doing video, but it looks like one of our cameras cut out again, so it'll probably be episode number four when we start uh start uh doing uh some some videography. But we appreciate all you guys listening, and then um again let us know about the acceptance challenge as far as saying yes um to your kids, um, you know, even if you're tired and it's been a long day or whatever, and then um just taking the time for yourself, man. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02: 1:31:28

Yeah, and let us know how it went. We'd love to be able to share back those stories um to you know to others, and I'm sure you guys have great ideas of how it went.

SPEAKER_01: 1:31:37

Hell yeah. Right on, guys. We'll see you next time. Bye, everybody. See ya.